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gsga
Joined: Jul 22, 2004 Posts: 267 Location: allentown, pa
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:56 pm Post subject:
I have a classic NES... |
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Ok. Just bought the old 2nd gen NES control deck (w/ cartridges and all the hookups). This is the classic mini console. How can I tweak this? What can I do with it? I've seen new cartridges for Atari 2600 (through AtartAge, I think) that can turn that console into a synth. Is there anyhting out there like that for NES?
Anyone into 8-bit/Nintendocore?
Any ideas/links are appreciated! _________________ "Pop music is for sheep and we are wolves disguised as shepherds." |
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Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject:
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Yay, micromusic! Fond days, that machine.
Anyway, on to business. There was this one guy that did a cartridge with a means to controll the internal soundchip, probably with MIDI but my memory is hazy. Aparently that was a rather crude implementation.
Yah, gotit.
http://www.wayfar.net/
I think that's the only one around since all of that crowd is on the gameboy. _________________ Kassen |
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gsga
Joined: Jul 22, 2004 Posts: 267 Location: allentown, pa
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:25 pm Post subject:
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Kassen wrote: | I think that's the only one around since all of that crowd is on the gameboy. |
True.
Thanks Kassen! That looks hot. If I'm not mistaken, it looks like you don't have to modify the system at all, just insert the cartridge. Very nice! _________________ "Pop music is for sheep and we are wolves disguised as shepherds." |
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rhombus
Joined: Mar 17, 2005 Posts: 71 Location: Seattle, WA
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject:
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Yeah I've got the GBA cart, Nanoloop, made by some guys in Germany.
www.nanoloop.de
It's a little tough to use, not easily interactible for live performance. You can save songs though, which is nice. |
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dnny
Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Audio files: 8
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Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:50 am Post subject:
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gsga wrote: | Kassen wrote: | I think that's the only one around since all of that crowd is on the gameboy. |
True.
Thanks Kassen! That looks hot. If I'm not mistaken, it looks like you don't have to modify the system at all, just insert the cartridge. Very nice! |
Yes, it does seem to demand a ntc (so North American) NES which I suppose won't be a limitation to you? That page does note that the soundchip is inside of the general CPU which would put a quick stop to bending that part.
I googled for "nes midi cartridge" and also encountered a single unit rack modification of a NES that might interest you once you get this to work. _________________ Kassen |
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opg
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:38 am Post subject:
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Don't get me started!
Yes, there's MIDINES (http://www.wayfar.net/0xf00000_overview.php), the cartridge. I've heard good things about it.
I wish someone would go a step further, and create a synthesizer with a keyboard using the 2a03 chip. A friend of mine loves using NES equipment for robotics (http://www.lathan.org/Gallery/MyProjects/index.html), but he thought this may a bit lofty of a task. I was trying to see if I could design the synth around the logic of the MCK/MML programming language.
Those Gameboy carts (LSDJ, Nanoloop) are so hard to get a hold of that I've about given up. I was told Nanoloop 1.3 (for the classic Gameboy) is going to be sold again this month (70 euros). If you just get the ROM image, you have to go through the horrible mess of finding the right mix of gameboys, flash cards, bridges, etc, that it seems unlikely that it will work.
I looked around for other handheld devices (PDAs, Pocket PCs, etc), but it's pointless when you know you're not going to get that warm Gameboy sound, even if you are able to run an emulator on something.
This is why we need an NES synthesizer (call it the "2A03"), but with MIDINES available, I guess it's not necessary.
Let us know what you do. |
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deknow
Joined: Sep 15, 2004 Posts: 1307 Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
G2 patch files: 15
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:46 am Post subject:
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i do have an original palm pilot (one of the first ones), and have used a step sequencer with it to run my paia fatman. i would probably use it more if it could sync to external midi clock.
deknow |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18211 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 218
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:44 am Post subject:
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http://www.wayfar.net/ is a great link. I love the musical examples.
What fun! The NES is a wonderful instrument. I'm too old to have gotten into playing the games, but I did enjoy listening to the music on some of them when my kids would play them. If I remember correctly (doubtful) there was a game called Zelda that had exceptionally nice music. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:50 am Post subject:
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Yeah! Zelda is a classic.
What's going on in those games is that space on the cartridges was so expensive that all the coding, including the music, had to be increadibly tight. That made for some particularly inventive strategies in synthesis and composition. _________________ Kassen |
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opg
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:52 am Post subject:
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Kassen wrote: | What's going on in those games is that space on the cartridges was so expensive that all the coding, including the music, had to be increadibly tight. That made for some particularly inventive strategies in synthesis and composition. |
Damn straight! The few months I was working on NES tunes using MCK/MML code (programming info can be found at: http://nesdev.parodius.com/mck_guide_v1.0.txt
It's by 8bitpeoples' Nullsleep, who gives a great tutorial on how to program songs. It's a long read, but it is fascinating how effects are created. I can't say that much for the small collection of programs used to compile and playback the tunes. It was a bit difficult finding them (though once they are all set up, everything is done in Notepad), but after a while, the program just quit working. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18211 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 218
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject:
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Yikes, looking at that gave me the shakes... better go get more coffee...
That wayfar midi thing looks like great fun though, and much easier. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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microjackson
Joined: Aug 24, 2005 Posts: 9 Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:53 am Post subject:
live nes manipulation |
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this topic makes me remember a wonderfull night a few years ago. i went to a beige records party ( www.beigerecords.com, from st. louis usa, luckily where im from). and one of the guys gave a demonstartion on hacking the nes. except he didnt really "hack" it. he had programmed a bunch of new popular "hip hop" and rap songs onto some chips ( im not very technically inclined ). Audience members would randomly select a chip from the bag, he would somehow insert it into a nintendo cart, and then the song would be played, in 8 bit glory. very wonderfull show. he also had some crazy video hacks for mario where all that happened was the clouds would scroll by the blue background. so pretty i even bought a print of it wish i knew what they were up to now!
bye,
dennis |
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distolectric
Joined: Oct 18, 2005 Posts: 15 Location: Linz
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:29 am Post subject:
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Just downloaded all the super mario "soundtracks" from NES over SNES to GBA...i dig this type of freaky bleeping sound...
I know the wayfar page for some months...will get a NES and the cartridge to play around with this... |
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flipside
Joined: Jan 02, 2006 Posts: 6 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject:
Music with NES |
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I read about this MCK/MML stuff but I am a bit confused.. Is this just another way of emulating the NES? Or is this the way music was written for the original NES games? How can one do that? I have the MIDINES, but I'm interested in knowing how you program the NES directly.. the programming techniques described in the MCK/MML document is very very cool, just what I'm looking for.. like all the macros.. pitch, cycle, etc.
How would you transfer this to the nes? The chips-in-a-bag partytrick was also very very cool. I'm not very much into the electronics of the NES, or in general, but I'm very eager to learn about this. I would love to create little tunes, and say, transfer them to cartridges that I can put in the NES. Or play them directly on the NES.
Best,
Alex |
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opg
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:19 am Post subject:
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Yes, unfortunately it is only an emulated version of the NES sound, but the good news is this is how the music is actually programmed!
MIDINES is, as far as I know, the only way to successfully create tunes that the NES itself will play (not emulated). I haven't tried it or seen anyone use it yet.
Playing songs directly from an NES cartridge would be cool, but besides the fun part of programming the songs in the MCK/MML language, you would also have to create code for the actual "game" itself (video, etc). I've been spending a lot of time with the Gameboy, and this has all been done and is well-documented, but I think the NES is a bit trickier than the Gameboy.
I took a look at http://www.robwebb.clara.co.uk/shop/copiers/copiers.htm to see if there were flash carts or transferers for the NES, but it appears they started with the SNES. This would have been the best way to program a cartridge and actually pop it in the NES to play songs. The only other option is to hack an existing game cartridge. There are sites out there on this, but from what I have seen, it is harder than the Gameboy. Check out this: http://nesdev.parodius.com/
Let me know what you find. I still have the dream to build a synth with the 2A03 sound chip in it. |
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flipside
Joined: Jan 02, 2006 Posts: 6 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject:
This looks interesting... |
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Maybe it's possible through this? Just found it, haven't read much, have to go to bed..
http://www.tripoint.org/kevtris/Projects/copynes/
A hardware NES synth, that'd be awesome
Alex |
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flipside
Joined: Jan 02, 2006 Posts: 6 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject:
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"With the NSF cart, it can play NSFs up to 128K in size."
Woho, I'm getting one! |
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opg
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:01 am Post subject:
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I'd be stupid NOT to do this! |
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glitched
Joined: Mar 25, 2006 Posts: 80 Location: phila., pa USA
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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject:
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I have MidiNES and it is great. It totally blew me away; I wasn't expecting it to perform very well. The MIDI integration is tight and it acts just like any other hardware instrument (but in a very special way).
MIDI CC# are used to control the parameters of the five audio channels (2Xpulse, 1 tri, 1 noise, 1 sample).
My favorite feature is the sample channel. Although it's filled with 256 drum hits (typical Roland machines, breaks, and wacky kung-fu yelps), it's so much more than a lo-lo-lo-fi Akai. It's more akin to a circuit-bent SK-1...with granular synthesis and wavetable scanning. Yep.
Trust me, it's sick.
I highly recommend updating the NES' outputs if you do get the cart. I have some pictures that I took when I modded mine for separate outputs, so I will eventually create a little tutorial on how to do it. It's easy. Watch http://www.glitched.org/upd -- I'll put it up there soon along with some examples of how messed-up it can sound.
-[d] |
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destroyifyer
Joined: Mar 22, 2006 Posts: 425 Location: Babylon
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:35 am Post subject:
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it's interesting how, we have all of these great new high-tech vid games coming out now, like PsP and Xbox360, and all we can think of doing is whacking out old NESsies...
but, i can't make fun, i thought of doing the same thing a couple of weeks ago
it would be cool if they would just make a keyboard-controller for the X360 and make some actual synths for the machine, like, ones that aren't game-based. like, a sampler and drum machine or whatever. I've played a few games music like this before but i've never been impressed before.
latre |
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opg
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Berkeley, CA, US
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smokris
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 97 Location: Athens, Ohio, USA
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:21 am Post subject:
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Kassen wrote: | That made for some particularly inventive strategies in synthesis and composition. |
Totally. I remember playing this game called "Rad Gravity"... The "onboard the ship" music (which occupied about 30% of the gameplay time) was algorithmically-generated and aleatoric, I think --- or at least I was never able to determine where it looped. The game selected pitches and timings for the two pulse channels. The resulting spaciousness and atonality helped to establish this wonderful lonely mood, perfectly fitting for the plot of the game. |
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danielwarner
Joined: Dec 18, 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject:
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Speaking of NES and MIDI... I have a keyboard called the "Miracle" that was an NES accessory, I don't think it was made by Nintendo but by a third party. It's a MIDI controller that also has an output to the NES controller plug, and you plug it in along with its own cartridge, and you would play this game that would teach you how to play piano by controlling a sidescrolling character. You'd read musical notation and play the correct notes and that would make the character jump, run, etc, so if you fouled up your character would be hurt or perish.
It's the only MIDI controller I own, and I use it with a PAiA Fatman. |
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ftheletter
Joined: Jul 05, 2008 Posts: 1 Location: dover nh
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Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:02 am Post subject:
Scammed by wayfar maker |
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I ordered the MIDINES from the guy at Wayfar in mid-May.. never got the synth or heard anything from him, so i started emailing and calling him once/twice a week through the month of June. Now it's July, still no word from the fine gentleman, and it's too late for Paypal to do anything. I ultimately had to dispute the charge on my credit card, and they refunded the money.
What nonsense.. if you're one of those bold enough to try to get one of these from him, then make sure to make full use of Paypal's dispute center and escalate the claim when needed. i bet the thing sounds great, too bad the maker/seller is a rip-off artist. |
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