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The future of music
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fartein Valen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brams wrote:
So how will the musician of the future make a living?
my experience tells me that it's easier to earn some money with music applied to other media. I have produced music for a CD sold with a book for kids, I have played in multimedia shows where music is part of it with visuals etc. Music is everywhere but very often is Gebrauchsmusik.
I remember, when I was a teenager, spending hours listening to music lain on a sofa with closed eyes and earphones on my ears. how many of us do that nowadays?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
I remember, when I was a teenager, spending hours listening to music lain on a sofa with closed eyes and earphones on my ears. how many of us do that nowadays?


That's the only way I listened to music. Of course, now that I am an adult with a full-time job, a marriage, and a mortgage, I am lucky to find one hour a week in which to get funky.

I still see a strong rise in music that is produced for this type of listening, however. I guess most people these days are walking around with iPods with those ear-destroying earbuds instead of taking time out to just enjoy the music. There is a downside to multitasking - you get more done but you don't enjoy each thing as much. If I could get a job just cleaing out lint traps in dryers, I'd do it! Mmm...satisfying....

The do-everything-at-once lifestyle really has a negative effect on electronic music, ambient and experimental in particular. I guess that's kind of obvious, but if you are used to doing 10 things at once, you're also going to have an instant gratification mentality. With no song lyrics or build-up to a pounding drumbeat, people would get bored. Click. Next song, please. Too quiet for too many seconds. Click. Next song.

I had a big struggle with making money from music a while back, and with help from this forum, I've finally sorted things out. Trying to create short pieces of music for commercials was unsatisfying and too centered around "the business" and "connections." Being told to create a song in a certain style doesn't work for me. I much prefer spending longer amounts of time focusing on songs for an entire album, but I try to stay realistic. If I ever finish an album, I can't just expect to make money from it, or even be well-received. I decided my goal was to create songs that convey certain feelings I have about life - and to use certain sounds and arrangements. If it makes me happy, I will have achieved my goal.

The happiest I have ever been is listening to my own music through headphones outside at night. The thought of that keeps me going.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The future is....

A new genre of classical composition....

Juxta-com-pose that with the beats and fx and crahazy arrangment stylez and we will have ourselves a funky new generation.

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A Modern Rainforest Ambience.mp3
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Doobah



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm impatient so I'll answer myself...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It would be good to make a stipulation of this *new genre* "FREE" as well.

Name it "Free FreeMusic" : F.F.M : 44 Meters-of-dub-style-rampage.

Hey, change the current 64-bar protocol of dance to 44-bar or 55-bar, there's a novel scheme.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
elektro80 wrote:
And that is of course nothing new.


I'm sure there are untried combinations. How about a black metal boy band, with really catchy songs about death. Rolling Eyes


RAM.... STEIN.
Ein mench.... brent...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

opg wrote:
Has technology advanced to the point where anything that can possibly be done with sound waves been done already? Maybe, maybe not.


Well, certainly we have come to a point where it's relatively stable. We didn't see anything new in quite a while (new as in new forms of synthesis, not as in new products) and all the old stuff can be done in real time now (mostly...).

The next stage without any doubt (to me) is interfaces. Lately I had more fun with a simple wavetable with a good interface then I had with DAW style programs capable of playing tens of such tables in a relatively clumsy way.

I've said it before but compared to good acoustical musicians I can't escape the feeling that much electronic music sounds like it was played wearing oven mittens in the dark. How many of us even practice their instrument for hours per day before performing? How many interfaces even reward such practice?

THat's where I think the future of electronic music is.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brams wrote:
Lately I was thinking that it's a kind of funny "coincidence" that you can't earn much money anymore with selling records (almost everybody downloads it for free), but at the same time, producing records costs almost nothing anymore. Luckily, otherwise music (records) would not exist anymore hehe.


I'm not sure this is true.

For one thing record sales (contrary to CD sales) are going up, not down. Also youngsters may be the most visible market for music and the most easily marketed to but don't forget the 30 and 40-somethings. they have more disposable income for luxuries like music but they don't show up in chart sales because their tastes are more diverged.

I don't think downloading affects sales all that much. I think sales were affected more by the rise of mobile phones. Sure; you can download a lot but it's mostly the more popular stuff. Over the years I tried a few of those programs out of curiocity and never could I find more underground stuff, at least not stuff that wasn't already picked up by some larger subculture. For finding music nothing beats a good knowledgable and well stocked second hand record store.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
I've said it before but compared to good acoustical musicians I can't escape the feeling that much electronic music sounds like it was played wearing oven mittens in the dark. How many of us even practice their instrument for hours per day before performing? How many interfaces even reward such practice?

THat's where I think the future of electronic music is.


Yes - interfaces! People will use more MIDI instruments, but the more bizarre ones (the body suits, the grid of programmable buttons and handheld device seen on Musicthing, etc). This will lead to more electronic music shows. Then it will get out of hand, and robots will be introduced. You know laptop battles and dueling DJs? Well that will be all robots, like Battle Bots but music. Pop musicians interested in money and electronics will overuse new technologies in synthesized vocals. The technology will be so good, it will be difficult to tell the difference. Then that will be combined with robots. Then, people will revert back to the traditional acoustic instruments (woodwinds, guitars, drums) but have the robots play them. Imagine the Cantina Band in Star Wars but robots. When this becomes profitable, Disney will step in and ruin it with shows at the Epcot Center. A few of the good bands will stay around, like the ones that contain one or two humans and several robots. The robots will be able to run complex programs to do improv solos (random number codes but with guidelines and attention to rhythmic elements in the song).

Then everyone will get sick of robots and go back to drum circles at state parks. Then some of these hippies will be robots.
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brams



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah! Sounds cool! You just made my day (night)... Thanks. It's going to be all quite cool, music will be in sync with technology development, which will only be better and more advanced. So we should take advantage of that I guess. Burn your ibook and buy a macbook? (that's what i'm going to do, my ibook can't handle anymore what i want musically heh).
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Untill that day, though, OPG, somebody with your login should realy look into using joypads as a interface. Not the nintend 8 bit one but the modern ones with analogue sticks. I'm having loads of fun with those.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
g2ian wrote:
elektro80 wrote:
And that is of course nothing new.


I'm sure there are untried combinations. How about a black metal boy band, with really catchy songs about death. Rolling Eyes


RAM.... STEIN.
Ein mensch.... brent...

Smile



Yeah.. I know.. the catholic church has a lot to answer for.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
brams wrote:
Lately I was thinking that it's a kind of funny "coincidence" that you can't earn much money anymore with selling records (almost everybody downloads it for free), but at the same time, producing records costs almost nothing anymore. Luckily, otherwise music (records) would not exist anymore hehe.


I'm not sure this is true.

For one thing record sales (contrary to CD sales) are going up, not down. Also youngsters may be the most visible market for music and the most easily marketed to but don't forget the 30 and 40-somethings. they have more disposable income for luxuries like music but they don't show up in chart sales because their tastes are more diverged.

I don't think downloading affects sales all that much. I think sales were affected more by the rise of mobile phones. Sure; you can download a lot but it's mostly the more popular stuff. Over the years I tried a few of those programs out of curiocity and never could I find more underground stuff, at least not stuff that wasn't already picked up by some larger subculture. For finding music nothing beats a good knowledgable and well stocked second hand record store.


Kassen has some good points here. During the past 5 years I have tried to digest the statistics. It seems to me that the majors are overspending on the Britney Spears and the Madonnas. We are seeing that the supposedly big big superstars aren´t selling the way they "should" be selling. THis is no surprise at all. The music industry is of course in big shit but the it doesn´t really help to have talentless monkeys serve the big fan. Yell me truthfully, what is the essence of B and M? OK, yeah.. that would be the producers and musicians involved. In the case of Madonna, she does have brains and she works hard, but still it is the production and "innovation" that sells the records. As for BS, in the long run, her early material would really only appeal to pedopheliacs wouldn´t it? Back to M, what is the essence of the innovation in her two last past products? The answer is simply that she managed to end up with something that is a bad bad bad copy of state of the art avant garde pop 70s sound. The end result is till quite OK, but still.. this is not good enough. Madonna is about pop though, so whatever works is will do just fine. These days, pop is not about strutting the good stuff. Pop is about making a profit. Isn´t it hilarous how the the industry is reinventing the products and re-exploring markets? Just observe how a certain label is developing a long term white trash market for Bon Jovi .. and at the same time finetuning Bon Jovi for certain european gay markets. This is rocket science. Rolling Eyes If you want innovative and exciting music, then do your own footwork. It helps to learn something about music too.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Quote:
everything is unique
- I like that one.


I like it too. Everyone might be playing the same instruments and chord progressions, but everyone does it uniquely, pushing their own feel onto the same "sound" whether they try to or not. I think it's very depressing to think of music like genres that can be mashed together, or techniques that can be tried out. Music is more than the sum of it's parts - there's the overall feeling of the track and the space it puts you in that matters alot more than "holy shit, it's coutry techno! Isn't that fresh!?!?"

And don't get me started on 99% of glitch IDM.... I mean really, it's basically 80s wank guitar solo music for geeks.

Sure, if I'm in the right mood I can get into that "look what I can do" music where it's all about showing off and making different sounds no one has heard before but.... after 20 minutes I ask myself "why?" Listening to it doesn't make me feel the way I want to feel at that point in time, it's just ego and academics rolled into one. Make me feel melancholy, ecstatic, relaxed, powerful, guided, angry, knowledgable, shocked, cool, funky, happy.. anything that doesn't make me feel very uneasy and very geeky at the same time (new Autechre, 99% of the "mindfuck" glitch genre), or anything doesn't make me feel cheap, tacky and nasty (most modern pop music).

Every now and then a song comes along that puts me in a fantastic place when I listen to it and I love it. But if I sat down and went "well it's just a typical breakbeat with the same old chords slightly modified and it's really repetative... nothing new" I'd miss the point completely.

edit: Sorry, got a little OT there. And I don't mean to offend people that are right into glitchy IDM, just using an example of a genre that alot of people see as the future of music, that I don't really fancy alot of the time.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afro88 wrote:
.... started on 99% of glitch IDM.... I mean really, it's basically 80s wank guitar solo music for geeks. ....Autechre, 99% of the "mindfuck" glitch genre), or anything doesn't make me feel cheap, tacky and nasty (most modern pop music).


Laughing yeah.. and the 70s.. omg.. As for the roots of IDM unknown to the IDM crowd.. please check out Erkki Kurenniemi and the whole nordic 60s scene.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
As for the roots of IDM unknown to the IDM crowd.. please check out Erkki Kurenniemi and the whole nordic 60s scene.


Well, he certainly pioneered the whole "post-digital" aesthetic before digital even took off but I'm not so sure you can find the roots of IDM there. For one thing he's (was) virtually unkown outside of Finland so I doubt he influenced the first and second generation IDM stuff at all.

If the roots of IDM as a genre are to be found anywhere I think it's in makers of electronic music also being a large section of the market. This -as I see it- led to technical know-how filling the void left by the lack of expression caused by bad interfaces. Basically it's the new guitar solo indeed.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afro88 wrote:
And don't get me started on 99% of glitch IDM.... I mean really, it's basically 80s wank guitar solo music for geeks.


Oh, snap! I never thought of it that way! That's so funny! After hearing so many IDM laptop artists, I thought, "Well, this has certainly been worn out." I never equated the glitchy drum passages with 80s guitar solos. Laughing

As for joysticks and technology, I don't think I would be a good candidate for live electronic music performance. I couldn't even wrap my brain around Nanoloop for the Gameboy.

Besides, wiggling joysticks on stage alone and calling myself "One Player Game" -- my wife told me there was too much Freudian baggage with that name. doh
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

opg wrote:
Besides, wiggling joysticks on stage alone and calling myself "One Player Game" -- my wife told me there was too much Freudian baggage with that name. doh


Laughing Laughing Laughing

Maybe you could change your name to "Two Player Game" and you wife could come along and use a mouse?

.... hang on a minute Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

easy guys you are entering a mine field Cool
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="opg"]
Afro88 wrote:
And don't get me started on 99% of glitch IDM.... I mean really, it's basically 80s wank guitar solo music for geeks.


Oh, snap! I never thought of it that way! That's so funny! After hearing so many IDM laptop artists, I thought, "Well, this has certainly been worn out." I never equated the glitchy drum passages with 80s guitar solos. Laughing

I totally agree, I was just thinking this the other day. Where i'm from (Bristol,UK) I hear alot of break-core that is just a horrible noise. I think it's about a balance of elements, I love glitchy breaks such as tipper or si begg which has techy drums and synth sounds but with good meldoy and arrangement.
Hello everyone btw Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Gyu from Brizzle
welcome to electro-music.com Very Happy

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afro88 wrote:
Maybe you could change your name to "Two Player Game" and you wife could come along and use a mouse?


Aw, but that would ruin my image as a nerdy loner who still longs to ride in a pedal powered Dukes of Hazzard car. Wink

This reminds me of that awful movie "Airheads," where the guys named their band, "The Lone Rangers."
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One thing that certainly affects the ability to identify the new things is that the categorization happens post facto, at least partially. Only when things are left out (by 'dated', 'unoriginal' or some such labeling) do we get to see what was 'the new' at the time.

And then there is the social aspect of music: what are the social and power constructs that will feed the creation of and the interplay with 'the new'. Last time (to my perception of music that was the whole serialism/stochastic music Boulez/Xenakis/Stockhausen setup) it was still very much continuation of European established aesthetique.

Something that Kassen pointed out resonates with my experience very well, that is, to make music you need to have playable, sensitive, expressive instruments that are able to feed back extremely nuanced and time-critical response to the player as well as provide the transport between the musician and the audience. PowerBook still lacks in this department to my experience Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

memedesigner wrote:
Something that Kassen pointed out resonates with my experience very well, that is, to make music you need to have playable, sensitive, expressive instruments that are able to feed back extremely nuanced and time-critical response to the player as well as provide the transport between the musician and the audience. PowerBook still lacks in this department to my experience Smile


Oh yeah - I remember a forum thread about laptop shows. Even regarding Autechre, people who went to the shows were so bored they were looking for anything. "Oh, wait! I think he just turned a knob!"

I never really got into the fun of live concerts, as sorry as that may seem. I'll be all excited to see one of my favorite bands live, but when they don't play the song exactly as I have listened to it from their CD a hundred times, I get kind of disappointed. Most people love that sort of thing, though. Good god, I even thing that way about jazz! How impossible is that! "Okay John Medeski, I want you to play the exact same organ solo as you did on the Shack-Man album."

I guess that's why I appreciate the bedroom artists so much, and perhaps why I have become one of them. I like the idea of creating music alone for people who will be listening to it alone - with headphones, in the dark, under a blanket, tied up in the cellar, etc. However, this is the least profitable music of them all, so it is hard to compensate artists (or fund my own work) for their accomplishments. There's no advertising, no live shows, no connection to the artist except a website:

http://www.oneplayergame.com (I just redid it Cool )

I must admit, last week was the first time I completed an iTunes transaction (Thanks, Lucky Charms, for the free download). I kind of liked the experience. It took me forever to choose something. First I had to find out which songs I just discovered were on iTunes (most weren't), and then pick an artist that I didn't like SO much that I would want to get the CD. I can't get away from that idea - the actual, physical product with artwork and all. Is this the future of music purchasing - sleek, cold iPods filled with songs, and no belongings? Are we going to sleep standing up in closets and fill out 27b-6 forms?
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