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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
thru-zero VCOs
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: thru-zero VCOs
Subject description: do i need one?
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maybe all the talk over the Zeroscillator during the past year has finally gotten to me.
no way I'm gonna buy one, where's the fun in that?
so i have been drooling over the Electronotes thru-zero VCO (the one in Preferred circuits)
has somebody tried this design? like it? Or general opinions on thru-Zero?
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you for bringing this up. i am thinking of trying rene schmitz' design. he is using a 4.7 NTC which looks very interesting to me.
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/vco6.html

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ickystay



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 139
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
he is using a 4.7 NTC which looks very interesting to me.
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/vco6.html



Parallel with a normal 4K7? Was that a design necessity, or a parts box adaptation?

Looks cool anyway. Thanks for the link!
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ickystay wrote:
fonik wrote:
he is using a 4.7 NTC which looks very interesting to me.
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/vco6.html



Parallel with a normal 4K7? Was that a design necessity, or a parts box adaptation?

Looks cool anyway. Thanks for the link!

it's another kind of temerature compensation circuitry:
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/expo_tutorial/index.html

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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: thru-zero VCOs
Subject description: do i need one?
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andrewF wrote:
maybe all the talk over the Zeroscillator during the past year has finally gotten to me.
no way I'm gonna buy one, where's the fun in that?
so i have been drooling over the Electronotes thru-zero VCO (the one in Preferred circuits)
has somebody tried this design? like it? Or general opinions on thru-Zero?

I've always thought this one looked interesting. It's part of Henry's frequency shifter:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/henry01/frequency_shifter/freq_shifter03-02.pdf
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it is somewhat different.
all my 13700s are spoken for though Smile
Most designs seem to use switching and/or gates in combination with the transcond. amps. (Electronotes version has a 4013, 4070 and 3080s)
we best not forget Mr Tillman's trapezoid quadrature oscillator with thru-zero capabilities -
http://www.till.com/articles/QuadTrapVCO/vcocore.html
it looks very elegant, i guess some output circuitry would have to be decided upon. there is a good read about the benefits of low voltage operation and local regulation.
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
it is somewhat different.
all my 13700s are spoken for though Smile
Most designs seem to use switching and/or gates in combination with the transcond. amps. (Electronotes version has a 4013, 4070 and 3080s)


Henry's is switched via steering diodes so it might have smoother transitions and avoid possible problems with switch chatter. Just a guess, but something to think about. Smile
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any suggestions on setting up Henry's as a stand-alone module?
it seems from the output circuitry it is designed to be wired directly into the next stage of his freq shifter.
Would a couple of op-amps wired as unity gain buffers and say 300-1k resistors, before the jacks, do the job?
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
Any suggestions on setting up Henry's as a stand-alone module?
it seems from the output circuitry it is designed to be wired directly into the next stage of his freq shifter.
Would a couple of op-amps wired as unity gain buffers and say 300-1k resistors, before the jacks, do the job?

The outputs are already connected to buffers, so you can just hang your standard (1k) output resistor off of where the marked output terminals are. Smile

I'm not sure about what the output voltage levels are, though. You could e him.
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just to follow up on this -

i built the EN thru zero oscillator on stripboard.
Not too hard, worked straight away.
haven't played with it a lot (panel not finished) but it definitely does things regular VCOs can't, plenty of strange new sounds are waiting to be discovered.
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fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
just to follow up on this -

i built the EN thru zero oscillator on stripboard.
Not too hard, worked straight away.
haven't played with it a lot (panel not finished) but it definitely does things regular VCOs can't, plenty of strange new sounds are waiting to be discovered.


a stripboard layout you could share, perhaps? (drool drool)

b
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry nothing on paper
i just put in the chips, evenly spaced, then start from the left of the schematic and work my way to the right.
it aint pretty.
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A Board run for this one would be very nice.
I'm shure there is enough interest in such a board.
Rolling Eyes

i have not the 1000 Bucks for a Zero.............
and i'm not good enough to draw it by myself
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
sorry nothing on paper
i just put in the chips, evenly spaced, then start from the left of the schematic and work my way to the right.
it aint pretty.

So you do the trace cuts as you go along? After all the components are in place? For me it would just be easier to use pad-per-hole perfboarrd. Hmmm ... have to think about that some more. Surprised
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

perfboard?! so thats what its called - sorry to be confusing i used perfboard.
i've always called any of these blank boards 'strip board' Embarassed

well its perfboard -
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

problem with doing a run of PCBs is the schematic is not freely available without Bernie's permission. Though this design is in the Preferred Circuits collection, which is quite cheap ($20 - $30 ??? can't remember, I've got the everything collection)
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
perfboard?! so thats what its called - sorry to be confusing i used perfboard.
i've always called any of these blank boards 'strip board'...problem with doing a run of PCBs is the schematic is not freely available without Bernie's permission.

Well, I guess people aren't consistent with the nomenclature. To me, stripboard has ... well ... strips. Smile
Your board looks exactly like most of the things I make. Except I usually use lots of vector clips to make it easier to change components for experimental circuits.
Bernie is quite approachable, and would most likely give you permission to make boards. He considers himself in the publishing business, not manufacturing. Worth a try!

Ian
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prophei



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
...we best not forget Mr Tillman's trapezoid quadrature oscillator with thru-zero capabilities -
http://www.till.com/articles/QuadTrapVCO/vcocore.html
it looks very elegant, i guess some output circuitry would have to be decided upon. there is a good read about the benefits of low voltage operation and local regulation.



i'd love a pcb of this one =D
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kryptic



Joined: Feb 16, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would definitely be interested in some PCBs for one (or more) of the through zero VCO designs. I think a lot of people would like something similar to the zeroscillator but can't drop $1000 for one.
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kryptic wrote:
I would definitely be interested in some PCBs for one (or more) of the through zero VCO designs. I think a lot of people would like something similar to the zeroscillator but can't drop $1000 for one.

According to a note I just got from Bernie, he will put up individual projects at the EN website if people request them. He says so far no one has done this. Why not ask him to put the thru-zero VCO up and at the same time ask him if it would be OK to sell PCBs?

Ian
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Serenadi



Joined: Jul 03, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kryptic wrote:
I think a lot of people would like something similar to the zeroscillator but can't drop $1000 for one.


You're absolutely right !! Very Happy

I'm in for some PCBs, too.
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tomcat



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mee too, like usual Wink
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ENDIF



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If someone makes a good PCB of this, I'll take two.
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Randaleem



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:07 am    Post subject: Pro Through Zero Oscillator PCB"s available this AUG!
Subject description: Ian suggested asking, Andrew F and Bernie H gave the okay.
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Hi,

I've just returned fro climbing Half Dome in Yosemite Nat'l Park, USA and I am dead tired!

But not to tired to mention the emails awaiting my return!

Seems there will be Pro PCB's offered for the Electronotes Preferred Circuits Through Zero Oscillator. I expect they will be available in Aug (next month) I will be putting up a separate thread soon so you may sign up to let me know you are interested.

Here's how it came about:

I saw this post by Ian before I left for Yosemite and immediately sent two emails; one to Andrew F, and the other to Bernie Hutchins. I saw that each had replied when I returned a few minutes ago. Andrew said he wasn't interested in producing boards and wished me luck in doing so. And Bernie said, in part:

"Hi Randaleem -

I will put up the through-zero in a couple of days.

Actually, my only interest are in the preservation of
copyright and the proper attribution of intellectual
property. For example, I think the through-zero idea
originally came from Charlie Thompson - this is one of
the things I need to check."

So it looks like it's a go. I'll need to make a quick check of relevent patents to be sure we won't be violating anyone's IP (Bernie suggested this as well). Barring that; these PCB's will soon be available.

I also want to mention That I asked Bernie about doing PCB's, kits and completed modules based on other circuits from his vast collection; and it seems those will be a go as well. So watch for my posts as these get under way.

Gonna -continue to- be an exciting Summer and fall in SDIY!

Randal


frijitz wrote:
kryptic wrote:
I would definitely be interested in some PCBs for one (or more) of the through zero VCO designs. I think a lot of people would like something similar to the zeroscillator but can't drop $1000 for one.

According to a note I just got from Bernie, he will put up individual projects at the EN website if people request them. He says so far no one has done this. Why not ask him to put the thru-zero VCO up and at the same time ask him if it would be OK to sell PCBs?

Ian
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RF



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Randaleem -
I'd be interested in a board, for sure.

What route did you do on Half Dome? I climbed quite a lot 'back in the day"...
"Have fun or get hurt bad!"
bruce
(DLFA retired ((and now lite)
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: Pro Through Zero Oscillator PCB"s available this AUG!
Subject description: Ian suggested asking, Andrew F and Bernie H gave the okay.
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Randaleem wrote:
... Seems there will be Pro PCB's offered for the Electronotes Preferred Circuits Through Zero Oscillator. I expect they will be available in Aug (next month) I will be putting up a separate thread soon so you may sign up to let me know you are interested...

And Bernie said, in part:
Actually, my only interest are in the preservation of
copyright and the proper attribution of intellectual
property. For example, I think the through-zero idea
originally came from Charlie Thompson - this is one of
the things I need to check."


Hey, good news!

One minor point -- the oscillator in question was designed by Jan Hall. As far as I know, nobody seems to know where Jan is these days. I've run across several of the other EN contributors (Terry Michaels, Lester Ludwig, Charlie Thompson, etc.) in recent years, but not Jan. If anyone happens to know ...
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