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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Scanner Chorus
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wake01 wrote:

The way it worked was to use 18 ferrite core transformers and (I'm guessing here!) modulating the apparent primary inductance via a control signal applied to the secondary (which is not in the audio path).
As far as I know the attached schematic has not been posted before...


Thanks for posting this!
It's an interesting concept indeed!
Probably smoother than the Hammond way, with less artefacts: no partial cancellation from the discrete steps of delay that the hammond has (even though it crossfades smoothly between the steps).

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

... and here's an update of my new version of the scanner. Under the heavy influence of Vangelis music (Listened to See You Later, Earth and Spiral in a row), I just finished the first pass of the layout. Next session(s) will be debugging it, before it goes to the PCB house ...
Here's glimpse of what it will look like.

It has a full-fledged 9-stage Interpolating Scanner, complete with LEDs, discrete VCAs, the 25-inductor line box, voltage controlled LFO (speed and depth) with a lag circuit for Leslie-like acceleration, and an on-board power supply.

Other than the previous version, this is not limited to rotary scanning emulation. You can scan along the inductor delay line with any external CV. One application that comes to mind is the use of slight pitch modulation with an envelope follower. Or emulation the tape fluctuations of virtual Mellotron sounds by scanning via aftertouch.

You will also be able to use the whole thing as a standalone Interpolationg Scanner by omitting the Inductors and half of the other parts - then you can crossfade between up to 9 different filters, different reverbs, different oscillator waveforms - whatever you choose to connect extarnally.

And you can use it as a 9-segment tracking generator by feeding variable DC voltages to the scanner inputs. With potentiometers, or - for dynamic tracking generators - with external CVs.

This is based on my original idea , but not on the circuit described here:
http://jhaible.heim.at/tonline_stuff/jh_ipscan.html

Instead, I started with Don Tillman's brilliant version of the scanner, described here:
http://www.till.com/articles/scanner/index.html
and modified it for my needs. (With Don's permission.)

JH.


working_on_new_scanner_vibrato.jpg
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working_on_new_scanner_vibrato.jpg



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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Olimex just notified that the prototype PCB has been shipped.
Can't wait to get this. Smile

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A registered letter from Olimex arrived today.
Interpolating Scanner / Scanner Vibrato prototype board is here!
I'm so excited - I'll start soldering this right now.

I'll keep you updated ...

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm making first tests right now - looks very promising!

You must see these LEDs moving while the scanner is moving along the LC delay line, accelerating and decellerating almost Leslie-like.

I've filmed this, in terrible quality, with my digital camera.
I have a MOV file, which is about 10 MByte. Quick and dirty - any idea where I can put this on the web without much effort? (I guess it's too big to put it on the forum here ...)

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
(I guess it's too big to put it on the forum here ...)


Your quota will allow for it, it might work.

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
jhaible wrote:
(I guess it's too big to put it on the forum here ...)


Your quota will allow for it, it might work.


Wow, that was a fast reply!

I'll try it!

(Edit:) It's up!
I have to apologize for the bad quality. The sound has been recorded with the built-in microphone of my old Nikon Coolpix SQ, from the speakers of my Synthi Clone.
Setup is: Korg CX-3 (old version), 4 notes held down with clothespins.
Then into the Mic input of the Synti Clone, and out from the Scope output.
Then into the Scanner Chorus prototype. Then back into the Synthi Clone, amplified and reproduced with one of the internal speakers. Filmed with the Nikon SQ, held in the left hand, while holding the body of the Rate potentiometer in the palm of my right hand, and moving the knob of the pot with the fingers of the right hand. Just in case you were wondering. Smile

JH.


jh_scanvib_2008_quick_and_dirty.MOV
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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

You must see these LEDs moving while the scanner is moving along the LC delay line


Wow. Looks like panel mounted LEDs for this one are a must Very Happy
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

guitarfool wrote:
jhaible wrote:

You must see these LEDs moving while the scanner is moving along the LC delay line


Wow. Looks like panel mounted LEDs for this one are a must Very Happy


I thought I'd arrange them at the edge of the PCB - but you can still use wires to place them anywhere, if you keep the wires in reasonable lenght.

You need low current (2mA) LEDs for this, as they carry the same "I_ABC" current that controls the 9 discrete VCAs.

For a Hammond Vibrato or Leslie-like device you don't need the LEDs at all. Except you like the look of them.
But you can also use the same PCB for building a universal 9-stage Interpolating Scanner (just connect 9 individual input jacks to the board!), and then it will be good to place the LEDs next to their corresponding input jacks. (Similar to my JH-3 Interpolating Scanner: http://jhaible.heim.at/tonline_stuff/hjipsfro.gif )

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Woow this looks great!
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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just so I'm not confused by the early showings of this thread about a year ago....

Did that demo show off a slew in the rate control? Just thinking leslie-esque possibilities.... Wink

Gav.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gavgomad wrote:
Just so I'm not confused by the early showings of this thread about a year ago....

Did that demo show off a slew in the rate control? Just thinking leslie-esque possibilities.... Wink

Gav.


1st Version: Interpolating Scanner (JH-3 modular)
2nd Version: Hammond Scanner Vibrato, using just a crossfader and a lot of CMOS switches instead of a Scanner. (The veroboard-circuit from my web site.)
3rd version: PCB based on 2nd version, but Stereo. (About a year ago. Cancelled.)
4th version: A full-fledged Interpolating Scanner again, only using a modified verion of Don Tillman's Scanner instead of mine. Mono. (That's the prototype from today. Advantage is that I expect to sell this both, as a Hammond Vibrato emulator, and as a generic Scanner, so I hope I'll get enough demand for a PCB run this time.)

Acelleration / Decelleration: Has always been possible in all versions. I *think* about making a Leslie simulator that uses one or two Scanner vibrato PCBs, plus a board that does the panning and crossover and filtering.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

Acelleration / Decelleration: Has always been possible in all versions. I *think* about making a Leslie simulator that uses one or two Scanner vibrato PCBs, plus a board that does the panning and crossover and filtering.

JH.


I must admit, the chorus/vibrato is impressive as it stands (way to go JH!!), even monophonic (you have already given us a fewways to go stereo - even more with the Dim D!)....

But the possibility of switching this between a cool chorus/vibrato to a leslie sim? I like this idea.... Particularly as I was so slow to speak up on your CLS posts! Wink

The vast possibilities with two boards.... Wicked (possibly stereo) chorus/vibrato, but even in a modular system just using interplay between two scan chains with filters etc.??

WOW.... Wink

Gav.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm putting the demos that go into the direction of rotating speaker emulation over into the my Leslie / CLs-222 thread:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-23965.html

Here's a short demo with piano thru the Scanner Vibrato:

JH.


jh_scanvib_piano.mp3
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I just found this in my Tracktion projects. Don't remember from which version Scanner it is.

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 Filename:  jh_scanvib_piano.mp3
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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I asume it will cost 27€ per Board, right ?
but now, when you expect to have the Boards ready for shipping.
No, not that i wanna hear a estimated date to expect the Boards then, but i must plan my finances.

thanks
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
I asume it will cost 27€ per Board, right ?
but now, when you expect to have the Boards ready for shipping.
No, not that i wanna hear a estimated date to expect the Boards then, but i must plan my finances.

thanks


These will be "standard size" - so yes, 27 Euros.
The next weeks wil be occupied with the String Filter (getting boards from factory, building another prototype from two of them, then starting to ship them).
The Scanner will then be next in line. Which means I'll be asking for binding pre-orders soon (to be able to plan what quantities I'll have manufactured).
But I think about 2 months will pass before I can ship them (probably longer), and even then I'll keep pre-orders reserved for quite some time.

If all goes as intended, the project after the Scanner might be the Dim D + T.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Moogah



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hah, I've been passing this thread over because I didn't realize you were now working on a version which is a full blown Interpolating Scanner! This is probably the most exciting module of yours (that I'm aware of, anyway Wink).. and that chorus effect is really great as well!

I think I'm in for 2 PCB's Smile Great work again Jurgen!
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Moogah wrote:
Hah, I've been passing this thread over because I didn't realize you were now working on a version which is a full blown Interpolating Scanner!


That's the main reason why I did a complete redesign of my Scanner Vibrato: to allow the use of the same PCB as a general purpose Interpolating Scanner.

You can even use this thing as a parametric distortion box (you "draw" the transfer courve with slide potentiometers). I've put a sample on my web site where some rather tame bass notes from the OB-8 are transformed into something slightly more agressive:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/jh_ipscan_bass_chords.wav
(First half is dry sound, second half is the Scanner mixed in. (Audio is used on the CV (!) input of the scanner!)

JH.

Now Playing: Vangelis, China.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I know this might be more appropriate in the "Leslie Sim" thread, but a question for JH.... IF one were to want to have a scanner chorus with its various modes, BUT wanted to implement a quasi-Leslie as well, what would be required?

Your rotor emulation sounded INCREDIBLE (presumably using some panning circuitry and accel/decel), and as you had mentioned the only thing missing for a full Leslie sim was the drum emulation (presumably this would have a slower accel/decel rate).

I love the chorus as it is, but I'm interested in how far down the "Leslie" path you went, and whether it is worth continuing along that path?

My immediate concern is whether I spring for two boards or one, as I'm not sure whether a drum emulation would require a full scanner board, but perhaps you could shed some light on that.

Also, do you have any intention of releasing a daughterboard to pull off the rotor emulation/panning etc.? It seems like this could easily be a switched-in mode on the scanner chorus, but then again I'm not entirely sure how you were implementing those outboard rotor sim circuits.... Wink

Gavin.
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Moogah



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
That's the main reason why I did a complete redesign of my Scanner Vibrato:


Vibrato.. right.. I knew that Embarassed haha

I'm very excited about this! Now I need to build some more VCO's tho... Cool
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gavgomad wrote:
I know this might be more appropriate in the "Leslie Sim" thread, but a question for JH.... IF one were to want to have a scanner chorus with its various modes, BUT wanted to implement a quasi-Leslie as well, what would be required?

Your rotor emulation sounded INCREDIBLE (presumably using some panning circuitry and accel/decel), and as you had mentioned the only thing missing for a full Leslie sim was the drum emulation (presumably this would have a slower accel/decel rate).

I love the chorus as it is, but I'm interested in how far down the "Leslie" path you went, and whether it is worth continuing along that path?

My immediate concern is whether I spring for two boards or one, as I'm not sure whether a drum emulation would require a full scanner board, but perhaps you could shed some light on that.

Also, do you have any intention of releasing a daughterboard to pull off the rotor emulation/panning etc.? It seems like this could easily be a switched-in mode on the scanner chorus, but then again I'm not entirely sure how you were implementing those outboard rotor sim circuits.... Wink

Gavin.


I've stopped / paused work on the leslie extension after I made that demo. I'm glad you like it, but the overall reaction was rather weak. And personally I'm in doubt if it's worth following further, too.
I think the rotary motion is quite realistic, but whether it has a chance to be a better Leslie simulation, over-all, than the CLS-222, I have my doubts.

I don't say I canel it, but it's certainly postponed. Dim D + T will be first, that's for sure.

Does it make sense to buy an extra Scanner board, just in case?
I don't know.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
And personally I'm in doubt if it's worth following further, too.


I think that covers it for me then. Maybe I just need to dig myself up a CLS-222 one of these days and be done with it! Wink

So many projects, so tight a window to get boards, so little $$$.... Crying or Very sad

Thanks again, though, for another killer project with the Scanner Chorus, JH! Wink

Gav.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/jh_ipscan_prototype_frontpanel.pdf

I've just sent the design to Schaeffer AG, so it's completely untested.
That's the version I'm going to use for my Wurlitzer E-Piano and Farfisa Organ. Smile

JH.

Now playing: Vangelis, Invisible Connections

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Update of scanner web page:

http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/jh_interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib.html

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scanner vibrato timeline change (will come *earlier*)

Hi,

I had to make a slight change in the timeline for my Interpolating Scanner and Scanner Vibrato PCBs.
I’m going to “drink the waters” for more or less the whole of September, so I decided not to let you wait until October, but to bring it *forward* instead.
What I did is simply this: I placed the order at the PCB factory yesterday, and plan to distribute the PCBs, starting Mid-August.

So what if you haven’t placed your order yet?
Don’t worry. I’m having about *twice* as many PCBs manufactured, compared to the number of orders I have right now. Call me insane, but I’m doing this at my own risk because I’m convinced that I’ll get a lot more orders as soon as the first modules are built and people start to realize what they can use it for. Smile

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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