Stanley Lunetta - This topic was the first one - Wow!

sdcurtin · Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Posts: 18 Location: Detroit, MI

Hi Howard-

Welcome to MySpace, from that other Mills MFA. I saw in your MySpace blurb that Stanley Lunetta was your mentor and that you worked on a digital synthesizer with him- can you say more about this? He's one of the more interesting instrument builders out there.

Thanks,
Steve C
curtin.emf.org
myspace/stevencurtin

[added poll - mosc Feb 10,2008]

Subject changed by mosc - july 14, 2011

blue hell · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject:

For as long as Howard doesn't kick in ... there are some posts here on the forum mentioning Lunetta, you'll find them using the search function. To me those have been interesting.

mosc · Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject:

Sorry, I didn't see this.

Stan taught us about the joy of the surplus electronics stores, and he was into building really simple digital circuits that clocked at audio rates. For example, you make simple oscillators using digital inverters with RC networks. If you uses NAND gates instead of inverters, you get some sort of neat modulation when you hook up another oscillator to one of the free gate inputs. Run the osc into a modulo-N converter and you can get different pitches based on the code you put on the four inputs.

All these simple circuits, usually just one "naked" IC, are hooked up to banna jacks so you can make patches.

Shift registers were used a lot as were up/down counters, filp flops, and whatever we could find in the surpluss stores. We started with RTL, moved to TTL and then CMOS. Experimentation was the only rule.

Stan was always miffed that we called these instruments Lunettas. He said he felt honored, but he really wasn't the designer of them. He's great attitude made us want to call them Lunettas even more.

Most Lunettas probably don't exist any more because by their very nature they were never finished, but I still have mine. This was one of the fancy ones, included a lot of lights - means buffers - and even had built in stereo amp. Woo woo... Laughing

lunetta.jpg

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Mosc's Lunetta - circa 1971

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Danno Gee Ray · Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1351 Location: Telford, PA USA

Any way you could share some of the circuit schematics with us? It sounds fascinating.

mosc · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:55 am Post subject:

Schematics?

We ain't got no stinkin' schematics!

I'll be glad to post something in more detail in the DIY forum if people are sincerely interested. I'd have to draw all the circuits from memory, but they are so very simple it will be easy. Maybe, I'll move this to the DIY forum and see if there is any interest.

Maybe some of the better designers here will get in the spirit of this once they see how it works. The possibilities are pretty unlimited.

Danno Gee Ray · Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1351 Location: Telford, PA USA

That would be wonderful!

mosc · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject:

Fill in the poll at the top of this topic to motivate me. I'd like to see people start building these things. Maybe we could eventually motivate Stan Lunetta to chime in.

GlassX · Joined: Jan 27, 2008 Posts: 50 Location: Brazil

I don't know about building, but I'll probably breadboard some stuff - I have a profound love for simple circuits made with simple parts.

And I'm really curious about this part: "Shift registers were used a lot as were up/down counters, filp flops"... this got my mind thinkin already!!!

23isgood · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject:

I'm very interested. The second I saw that box with all those bananas and led's and stuff, I was instantly intrigued. Please share the build info.

thanks
pete

mosc · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject:

Wow, as of now, already 5 people said they were interested in building a Lunetta. That's splendid! That's enough for me.

RF · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject:

Awesome, Mosc!
I look forward to seeing and building some of these circuits.

Clack · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject:

Its quite hard to understand exactly what it involves, but it sounds interesting.

what kinds of things did you used to do with it?

did you ever record it?

Alienation · Joined: Jul 23, 2007 Posts: 47 Location: Midsouth

Sounds interesting, would like to learn more about these. Cool

fluxmonkey · Joined: Jun 24, 2005 Posts: 708 Location: cleve

mosc,

would be greatful for your notes and rememberances.

from yr initial description, sounds similar to much of what Nic Collins presented in Handmade Electronic Music, and simlarly here. have you seen Nic's book?

at any rate, this is fertile ground. my breadboard's all warmed up, and i'm very much looking forward to seeing your examples and following along at home...

best
bbob

Pehr · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:16 am Post subject:

This sounds awesome! Very Happy

I've got lots of digital ICs that I don't know what do do with. Cool

EDIT: I'm also a great fan of surplus stores, dumpster diving and using things I have at home Smile

bugbrand · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:47 am Post subject:

I'm damn excited by this thread! I'd not heard of Lunetta before, but the picture of Mosc's old system makes me smile! A lot!

I just checked through some old bags of CMOS chips I got off Ebay a while back and have several shift registers - 4014 and 4015 - and a bunch of other things to investigate.

The idea of just throwing things together as quickly as possible (obviously with some background reading / preparation!!) is really inspiring. I reckon a system based around 4000 series logic could be so damn good.

It'd be quite good to have some standardised inputs and outputs for such a system, right? Maybe a stack of comparators (with negative voltage protection etc) on the inputs so you can patch whatever LFOs etc in and then some buffers on the outputs...

Darn, I kind of need to prevent myself getting sidetracked by all the possibilities that this thread throws up! But I did get time to whip out a little schem for a module using the trusty 40106 chip.

Mosc - is this the kind of spirit????

Lunetta_ClockGenerator40106_byBugs.jpg

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Here's a simple little sketch for some clock generators -- you can, of course, make up to 6 super-simple oscs from a 40106, but I've chosen to show some interesting little extras. Try 'em out!

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Tim Servo · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: Stanley Lunetta

This looks like a fun thread. There's a LOT of fun sounds to be found in simple digital CMOS circuits. Another place to look for inspiration would be the Forrest Mims/Radio Shack "Engineer's Notebook" series.
http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-Mims-Engineers-Notebook/dp/1878707035

http://www.forrestmims.com/

And if you go to the Radio Shack site and look at their Electronics Learning Lab (which looks like it might be a great starting point for newbies), you can download the "Owner's Manual" (containing MANY circuits and breadboard layouts) for free!
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102913&cp

And while you're at it, check out Forrest Mims' personal site (just for grins)
http://www.forrestmims.org/

FINALLY, ONE THING TO REMEMBER ABOUT CMOS LOGIC CHIPS: ALL INPUTS MUST BE CONNECTED TO GND OR +V. DO NOT LEAVE CMOS INPUTS UNCONNECTED OR "FLOATING" AS THIS MAY DAMAGE THE CHIP!!

Sorry for the ALL CAPS, but this is a common mistake when dealing with logic-based sound gizmos. Sometimes it fries the chip, and sometimes it just makes the circuit misbehave and then you spend/waste all sorts of time trying to figure out what the heck went wrong.

Looking forward to seeing some illogical logic from all the new Lunettatics out there!

Tim (Lunettatics... get it?) Servo

mosc · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:02 am Post subject:

Yes, this is exactly the spirit. Lunettas are more about spirit that the actual circuits. So, I'm committed to going ahead with this thread. Since this is a sub-forum, I request that people start new topics when there is a new idea or question so people how newly come across this later will be better able to make sense out of what is happening.

To be sure, anything goes here. Bugs post about the digital oscillator is choice, IMHO. Those little OSCs are perfect. I'm going to start a new topic about OSCs and we can post designs there. I'll move Bugs topic there. I think once you guys get the spirit of this, then there won't be too much for me to do.

andrewF · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Stanley Lunetta

blue hell · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject:

A link to Stanley Lunetta's Moosack machine : http://www.ubu.com/sound/source.html (nr 8, but there are some more classics there!). It does sound like coming from a Lunetta to me Very Happy

blue hell · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject:

Some more links :

http://www.o-art.org/history/50s&_60s/DavisScene/StanLunneta/Lunetta60s.html

http://www.o-art.org/history/70's/Composers/Lunetta70s.html

http://www.o-art.org/history/50s&_60s/DavisScene/StanLunneta/MoosackMach..html

http://www.o-art.org/history/50s&_60s/DavisScene/StanLunneta/AMRA_ARMA.html

http://stang.donnerparty.net/stang/

danielwarner · Joined: Dec 18, 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Sacramento

para · Joined: Oct 16, 2006 Posts: 276

Uncle Krunkus · Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:

The way I see it,
It's about making a box which makes it easy for anyone to play with patching various simple building blocks (mostly digital) into a complex sound generator. Sort of a "200 in 1 Electronic Music Project Kit". Of course the more robust and "foolproof" the better. So it needs to include protection from potentially damaging patch options. Some kind of graphic layout for the "modules" would be helpful too, but not mandatory. Lots of LEDs which show the state of the "nodes" would be cool. It follows that being able to switch the osc/clocks between audio and LFO rates would be good for experimenting and/or understanding what was going on.
Is that the tree to be barking up Howard? Very Happy

BTW So it would be feasable that there could be a "standard" Lunetta device, or a standard "collection" of blocks in a Lunetta device, and then people could swap "patches".

BTBTW Some well designed input and output blocks would enable the Lunetta device to be patched into any modular synth. A way of doing digital micro engineering of a modular patch.

Uncle Krunkus · Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:35 am Post subject:

I just thought of a section which could be an R/2R DAC.
"Okay, we take that bit there, that can be the MSB. Now this bit here, (patch, patch) that can be our LSB. Okay, now we take these outputs off those two shift registers, they can be bits 2, 3 and 5. And bit 4 can be the output of this LDR controlled Oscillator."
Man, this could be hella fun! Very Happy