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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Pitch makers
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:39 pm    Post subject: Pitch makers Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Once we have little cheap digital oscillators we need to make some pitch patterns.

One of the easiest to use is the modulo-n counter. You can get a 4018 chip that does this function. I don't do building any more so I leave it as an excersize for someone to post the way to set the pinouts. Here's a link to the data sheet: http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2032.pdf

The idea is that you plug in your OSC, or any other signal that is square (digital) into the input and the output is divided by the binary number applied to the 4 control inputs.

There is no need to do anything but wire up the 4018 to the banana jacks.

1 input
4 control inputs
1 output.

That's it. You have a little mellody generator.

What do you do for the inputs. Well that's where a lot of fun comes from. You can plug anything you want into the control inputs. Lets say you have 4 oscillators - plug one into each input.

Or, if you have a binary counter IC, use that to divide down a single oscillator to make a pattern. It's best to use a binary up/down counter.

Here are a couple of G2 patches that work with the free G2 demo program. I made the modulo-n counter using flip-flops and logic gates since the G2 doesn't have a modulo-n counter module. All of the red stuff is the modulo-n counter. In the Lunetta, use the 4018 chip - much easier. Anyhow, the G2 patches are there just to give you an idea what this will sound like. Real Lunettas sound like this though - pretty much.

Using the OSC demo, be sure you change the frequencies of the oscillators so you get a feel as to what is happening. In the binary counter demo, be sure to try repatching the order of the connections from the binary counter. You'll get different patterns.


Mod-n w counter.pch2
 Description:
A demo of the modulo-n counter (converter/divider) being controlled by a binary counter. This is something similar to the 4018 chip for use in a Lunetta.

Download
 Filename:  Mod-n w counter.pch2
 Filesize:  1.14 KB
 Downloaded:  1223 Time(s)


Mod-n w oscs.pch2
 Description:
A demo of the modulo-n counter (converter/divider) being controlled by 4 OSCS. This is something similar to the 4018 chip for use in a Lunetta.

Download
 Filename:  Mod-n w oscs.pch2
 Filesize:  1.32 KB
 Downloaded:  1112 Time(s)


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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting!

Division is generally much easier than multiplication --- but, I've been reading a bit about using a 4046 PLL and a 4017 divider to multiply signals - haven't tried this properly yet, but.....

Here's the schem::::
(I think its from a book by Marston)


Marston_4046Multiplier.jpg
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4046 / 4017 frequency multiplier
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Marston_4046Multiplier.jpg



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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is exactly the circuit I was looking for, for something else.
This Lunetta forum is bringing out some great ideas!

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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That freq multiplier looks cool, but a little complicated... Rolling Eyes

Still, it's in the Lunetta spirit. I'd suggest building the divider first. Once one gets into these things, it turns out that you can really enjoy the simplest circuits.

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loss1234



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bugs

did you ever build that multiplier? i have been doing a ton of stuff with the 4046 lately but i myself have been using it with a 4024 between pins 3 and 4.

one of the things i am doing a lot now is converting an audio signal to square, uping its frequency with a 4046 and then spitting the divided outs to the control ins of other counters.
i was wondering if there is any significant difference with a 4017 but i guess i can just try it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loss1234 wrote:
i was wondering if there is any significant difference with a 4017 but i guess i can just try it.


the 4024 should only give you octave multiplications... x2, x4, x8 etc

the 4017 will give you non-octave intervals in addition to a few octave multiplications
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow

i need to try that!!

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, this is related to the other question you posted Loss1234 hey?
I knew I'd seen something else which was a lot more immediate than the description I quoted.
If you used a 4046 with a 4017 in the feedback path you could take an input up in frequency by 2X, 3X, 4X, 5X, etc. which would equal some octaves, but also the 3,5,7,9 are not octaves. Then you could divide back down by 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc. using another 4017. This way you could get heaps more intervals/ratios.
Don't forget that 4017s can be cascaded with the addition of an AND gate, which would mean more ratios again. For example, you could multiply by 13 and then divide by 12. Would that be 1 semitone up? Maybe not, but you get the idea. Man I wish I had the time to start on my own Lunetta!

BTW The cascading of 4017s can be seen at the bottom of it's datasheet. Very Happy

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loss1234



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow

thats the ticket!!!

now i have so many ideas!

cant wait to get to the bench tonight.

thanks

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loss1234 wrote:
bugs
one of the things i am doing a lot now is converting an audio signal to square, uping its frequency with a 4046 and then spitting the divided outs to the control ins of other counters.


Loss, how is this working out for you? Does the 4046 follow your squared-up audio signal pretty well?

I'm gonna breadboard the multiplier circuit too when I get a chance. This is something I've been looking for as well-- I want a multiplier for use in clocking rhythmic audio signals to drive syncable delay effects, and/or other syncable circuits. More less, I'm trying to get the function of a tap-clock that can do triplets, quarter-notes, eighths, etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:52 am    Post subject:
Subject description: The 4018 Revisited
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Mosc, thanks for the info on this ic! Works as described and super simple to implement. Lots of cool sounds depending on what's being fed in. Got to get me a bunch more Very Happy ! Here's a track recorded live with the Fender FRV-1 reverb pedal. I patched thru my 4040 as well as my 4015 shift register to alter the mood a bit. No editing or other effects used.



OnTV by Draal

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: The 4018 Revisited
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Draal wrote:
Mosc, thanks for the info on this ic! Works as described and super simple to implement. Lots of cool sounds depending on what's being fed in.


Great, glad you are getting into this. Your track sounds great.

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Kabzoer



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can you give me a download of that G2 program?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kabzoer wrote:
Can you give me a download of that G2 program?


Go to http://www.nordkeyboards.com/main.asp?tm=Products&clpm=Nord_Modular_G2&clnmm=Information and download the demo there.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I downloaded all the stuff, but there comes no sound out of it...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting Laughing

You did download the DEMO?

You did select an audio out in Setup/Audio Midi?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! Got it working Very Happy

So, it counts the number of inputs that are high, and divides the clock by that?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bugbrand wrote:
Interesting!

Division is generally much easier than multiplication --- but, I've been reading a bit about using a 4046 PLL and a 4017 divider to multiply signals - haven't tried this properly yet, but.....

Here's the schem::::
(I think its from a book by Marston)


Does it work for slow signals too?
Like 1/4 to 1/16th note conversion?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm starting a Lunetta, was wondering if it was possible to use this divider(or another) circuit to get several intervals from a single wave? I.E. Put in a C and get the rest of the scale...or some of it. So I could get a lot of polyphony from a couple of oscillators. I realize this is kind of what's being discussed in this thread but has a solution arisen?

Thanks. Been lurking for a few weeks and this forum is pretty awesome!
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trav



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome, Deaf Wasp.

check out my thread here, for a similar idea.

That uses a lot of chips just to get a scale. You could use just a few divisions to get a chord, though: see attached (untested) example. Unfortunately you have to make some pretty big divisions to get the most conventional chords, eg. to get a major third in this way you have to divide by 6561! Also, the tones you get will be several octaves lower than the original signal...


chords.png
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chords.png


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a major chord. Note that you put in an E and get out C E G about six octaves down... perhaps if there were a simple way to multiply by 3, 9, 27, 81 this could be made much easier: you'd put the base signal into a binary counter and take each divisions by 2, 4, 8, 16 into an appropriate multiplication circuit. Have a look at this pythagorean tuning diagram and you'll get the idea.

My method, rather than multiply by powers of three and divide by powers of two, was to divide by powers of three and then divide even further by powers of two. This avoids the problems of multiplying frequencies, but the downside is having to start with a very high frequency which is not at all like what comes out the other end. If you come up with anything be sure to post it!


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