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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
the snappiest adsr eg of the world schematic
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1234



Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Check the adapted schematic. It allows to use more normal pot values. And it has two ranges with the small one quite more faster than original Roland ADSR. I could be not very difficult to make this small changes to your perf layout if you want.


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1234



Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And you do not realy need tantalum for timing capacitor, since they are not so cheap, but if one goes for small range capacitor of 1uF, I would advise using polypropylene for uniform performance at shortest settings like used for bass or percussive sounns. Power supply rails decoupling is good idea too. For attack pot you can use 500KOhm if there is no 470KOhm arround. All pots can be linear.
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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok thanks, probably no need to change the layout, as the timing caps can be mounted directly onto the range switch.
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1234



Joined: Nov 14, 2010
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Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure:) Polypropylene could be a litle bit big
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adambee7



Joined: Apr 04, 2009
Posts: 420
Location: united kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'd be up for 4 x pcbs. Very Happy Very Happy
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have never been able to locate the schematics for the m170 Pitch to Voltage Converter in the Roland 100m system. Does anyone have this please? I am beginning to wonder if the module ever existed!!
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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just updated my layout to fix a couple of errors around Q3/Q4. Think it's correct now, gonna etch some today.

StephenGiles wrote:
I have never been able to locate the schematics for the m170 Pitch to Voltage Converter in the Roland 100m system. Does anyone have this please? I am beginning to wonder if the module ever existed!!


I don't think there was one Stephen. A number of proposed modules never happened.

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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for that, I'll not waste any more searching time.
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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just verified my layout, good to go! Anyone want some PCBs?

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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reve



Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 147
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frequencycentral wrote:
I just verified my layout, good to go! Anyone want some PCBs?



Yeeeeep! What's the projected unit cost?

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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you would like any PCBs, the cost is £10 GBP per unit including shipping to anywhere. Payments by Paypal gift to:

rickholt22 AT hotmail DOT com

Please include your forum user name, full address and number of PCBs you require in your Paypal transaction.

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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thnks for sharing the layout Frequency Central!!!
I will build one soon.

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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Frequency Central:
I was thinking about the change of C1 value...
Minimum attack is 1.5 ms and minimum decay and release are 4ms with the original capacitor and pots.
Pots don't affect the minimum times because are set to 0 resistance, so I think that a bigger value of C1 will increase the minimum attack, decay and release time.
And one thing I try to achieve is a fast attack time.
Do you measured the minimum times with C1=4.7uF?
I think that minimum attack time will be increased to about 2.5ms.

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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I haven't measured it. Probably implementing a switch for the capacitor like 1234 suggests would be a really good idea.
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stewpye



Joined: Apr 30, 2009
Posts: 49
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It seems to me that the current flowing into the envelope capacitor during the attack cycle is limited by R17. If we assume 13V from base of Q5 to ground then Q5 base current is 276uA. With a transistor of hfe=300 the collector current will be 8.3mA. This will vary depending of the hfe of the transistor used, and the attack time may be able to be shortened by reducing R17. Keep in mind the ratings of the transistor used.

If I've got this totally wrong, someone please correct me!

Regards,
Stewart.
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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

stewpye wrote:
It seems to me that the current flowing into the envelope capacitor during the attack cycle is limited by R17. If we assume 13V from base of Q5 to ground then Q5 base current is 276uA. With a transistor of hfe=300 the collector current will be 8.3mA. This will vary depending of the hfe of the transistor used, and the attack time may be able to be shortened by reducing R17. Keep in mind the ratings of the transistor used.

If I've got this totally wrong, someone please correct me!

Regards,
Stewart.


Thanks Stewart, I will experiment with R17 when have some time to build this envelope.
.

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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 541
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One more thing: In the orginal schematic the pots are specified as type D taper (kind of super log), an Frequency Central specified them as type B taper (linear). I think that type A taper (log) will be closer to the original spec.
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roglok



Joined: Aug 28, 2010
Posts: 163
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd love to build a dual version of these with 20mm slide pots (for eurorack). I've considered using Alpha RA2043F series sliders, but those seem to have a maximum resistance of 100K.

Any ideas where to find 20mm travel 500K or 1M sliders? Or would it make sense to use lower resistance pots and tamper with the timing cap?
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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 541
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

roglok wrote:
I'd love to build a dual version of these with 20mm slide pots (for eurorack). I've considered using Alpha RA2043F series sliders, but those seem to have a maximum resistance of 100K.

Any ideas where to find 20mm travel 500K or 1M sliders? Or would it make sense to use lower resistance pots and tamper with the timing cap?


Read a few posts aboove, and your question about changing the timing cap will be answered...

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roglok



Joined: Aug 28, 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Read a few posts aboove, and your question about changing the timing cap will be answered...


OK, sorry. A little green here. Here's what I understood:

The pots for A, D and R are set up as variable resistors and have thus no effect on the minimum times. Substituting those for 100K pots will merely reduce the maximum times to a fifth/tenth of frequencycentral's layout. In order to compensate for these lower resistor values, the value of C1 could be increased to get longer maximum times. But this would also result in a slower minimum times, right?

How long are the maximum times of these envelopes anyway? Let's say the goal would be to have snappy envelopes that don't go super-long.

Thanks!
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Sebo



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, you get it right Smile

From the schematic (with original pots & cap values):

Attack: 1.5ms - 7.5s
Decay: 4ms - 15s
Sustain: 0 +10V
Release: 4ms - 15s

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roglok



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool, thanks!

I guess I'll veroboard the circuit and experiment a little with the pots/caps.
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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just completed my (first) 140 panel. The second ADSR I built has been sitting on my bench for a few weeks, waiting for me to realise that a 470k resistor is not a good sub for a 47k resistor. doh

I broke out the timing caps to a switch, at the moment I'm using 1uF for fast and 4.7uF for slow, but I think I'm gonna change out the 4.7uF for 10uF for mega-long envelope times.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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1234



Joined: Nov 14, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mmm, your build looks good! And did you like the performance of this EG, in particular snappiness?
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1234



Joined: Nov 14, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But don't forget, different filters will respond differently to EG's applied to them, snappiness is not only attribute of EG's.
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