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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Haible Vokoder?
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm in Very Happy


as i understand this is not patchable ? ( I don't know the vintage stuff )
Patchable would be nice.
anyway, would be really nice when its not only Vintage and also be something very modern.



I have the doepfer vocoder, patching the CVs criss cross gives very best groove stuff,
just the soundquality is a bit............well............i prefer with selected Parts i think


with patchability i mean to have Headers on the board for bringing patchpoints out, or at least pads like on the Stringfilter.
But as you go for a big Board Headers would be very welcome.
It's just so much easier to debug or change something when a module is fully deconnectable.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
I'm in Very Happy


as i understand this is not patchable ? ( I don't know the vintage stuff )
Patchable would be nice.
anyway, would be really nice when its not only Vintage and also be something very modern.



I have the doepfer vocoder, patching the CVs criss cross gives very best groove stuff,
just the soundquality is a bit............well............i prefer with selected Parts i think


with patchability i mean to have Headers on the board for bringing patchpoints out, or at least pads like on the Stringfilter.
But as you go for a big Board Headers would be very welcome.
It's just so much easier to debug or change something when a module is fully deconnectable.


Yes of course you can make it patchable. Jacks like the Moog/Bode, or a Matrix like EMS5000 and the big Dynacord. It's up to you. I will provide the connections and buffers on the PCB. You can use this for cross-patching, and even for (external) storage of Formants.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
am particulary interested in the filterbank mode for sounddesign.

How much is the attenuation of the filters?


Juergen,how much?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
TekniK wrote:
am particulary interested in the filterbank mode for sounddesign.

How much is the attenuation of the filters?


Juergen,how much?


I don't understand the question, how much attenuation.
Or do you mean the Q factors and number of poles?
Filter slopes at "infinity" or in th einteresig region?
That's a secret until the board is finished. Laughing

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
TekniK wrote:
TekniK wrote:
am particulary interested in the filterbank mode for sounddesign.

How much is the attenuation of the filters?


Juergen,how much?


I don't understand the question, how much attenuation.
Or do you mean the Q factors and number of poles?
Filter slopes at "infinity" or in th einteresig region?
That's a secret until the board is finished. Laughing

JH.


I mean how much db/oct the bandpass filters are
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
jhaible wrote:
TekniK wrote:
TekniK wrote:
am particulary interested in the filterbank mode for sounddesign.

How much is the attenuation of the filters?


Juergen,how much?


I don't understand the question, how much attenuation.
Or do you mean the Q factors and number of poles?
Filter slopes at "infinity" or in th einteresig region?
That's a secret until the board is finished. Laughing

JH.


I mean how much db/oct the bandpass filters are


Where? At infinity? At the center of the adjacent band?
This gives as much room for glossed over figures that I hesitate to quote any numbers.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

Where? At infinity? At the center of the adjacent band?
This gives as much room for glossed over figures that I hesitate to quote any numbers.

JH.


I don't understand why u not simply mention both.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
jhaible wrote:

Where? At infinity? At the center of the adjacent band?
This gives as much room for glossed over figures that I hesitate to quote any numbers.

JH.


I don't understand why u not simply mention both.


Trade secret.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
TekniK wrote:
jhaible wrote:

Where? At infinity? At the center of the adjacent band?
This gives as much room for glossed over figures that I hesitate to quote any numbers.

JH.


I don't understand why u not simply mention both.


Trade secret.

JH.


Its probably the first time now u write bollocks,it reveals the quality how the vocoder will perform,nothing more.

So before i consider buy one i would like to know if its worth it.
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
bollocks


Hmm .. wel as much as it your right to not buy anything for whatever reason you choose it's a developer's right to not give specs for whatever reason he chooses. You may not like the latter, but it's not bollocks, just a choice.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

Yes of course you can make it patchable. Jacks like the Moog/Bode, or a Matrix like EMS5000 and the big Dynacord. It's up to you. I will provide the connections and buffers on the PCB.

JH.






@teKniK
I trust in Jürgens skills Wink. every single Module i built brought my Modularsynth really forward.
and finally are there not that much options for Vocoders not ? Wink

and please be gentle ! Jürgen is very friendly and i read not one wrong word from him.
Anyway in the hole forum is a very good tonality. FAR FAR FAR better than on any other forum i know.
It makes this place so outstanding. and so just a single distonality looks not nice while it would be sound on another place just a liitle bit like streettalking, not forcing to comment.
sorry, here it did forced me .
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
jhaible wrote:
TekniK wrote:
jhaible wrote:

Where? At infinity? At the center of the adjacent band?
This gives as much room for glossed over figures that I hesitate to quote any numbers.

JH.


I don't understand why u not simply mention both.


Trade secret.

JH.


Its probably the first time now u write bollocks,it reveals the quality how the vocoder will perform,nothing more.


With all due respect, I disagree. If you could condense the quality of a vocoder into such simple figures, you probably were right. But nothing could be farther from it.
Of course I could explain it in more detail, and I will, but not now, because I don't want to give things away before I can actually offer them for sale. I'll tell you before I expect any orders, of course, but not months ahead.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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/mr



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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
I disagree.

I agree fully with Jürgen, these figures aren't very interesting. Higher inter-band attenuation and more perfect filters does not imply higher quality. If it would, software vocoders with lots of bands with steep roll-off would sound interesting. But they don't. There's simply no character and quality left. Smile

One thing I would expect makes a big difference in character is how the band frequencies are placed. They can be anything from harmonically related to unevenly spaced across the spectrum. The classic analogue vocoders have quite different placements... have you analysed them and/or made some deep thinking exercises about what would be the "best" design? Smile

When playing with my Doepfer A-128 Fixed Filter Bank in a feedback connection, I often feel that the peaks placements fit quite well together, especially in the midrange, and that it could sound much worse in some other placements... so a well-chosen set of BPF frequencies feels like a must-have in order to make the best vocoder!
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
TekniK wrote:
bollocks


Hmm .. wel as much as it your right to not buy anything for whatever reason you choose it's a developer's right to not give specs for whatever reason he chooses. You may not like the latter, but it's not bollocks, just a choice.


Your explanation doesn't matter,iv got the reply i needed from Juergen:

'Of course I could explain it in more detail, and I will, but not now, because I don't want to give things away before I can actually offer them for sale.'

Thanks,Juergen
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
Your explanation doesn't matter


That's really too bad, I was worried about your word choice here.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Come on, guys, I didn't even know what "bollocks" means; I had to look it up in a dictionary. Now I know a new word, and have learned something. Smile
No offense taken!

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Come on, guys, I didn't even know what "bollocks" means; I had to look it up in a dictionary. Now I know a new word, and have learned something. Smile
No offense taken!

JH.


hey Jürgen, it's offence with "c" over here - we Europeans need to stick together! By the way, in Spanish I think is boludos!!
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a blurry picture from today's work ...

JH.


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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Luka



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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jurgen i keep ordering your projects and find i never have $$ when the time is right. do you have a rough estimate when this will eventuate so i can save. ie 6months, a year etc. nothing too specific but a rough guide for the sdiy addicted who are spread too thin and have a huge backlog of pcbs already to build Embarassed
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zthee



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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Just a blurry picture from today's work ...

JH.


Is it 14 LM13600 i see?

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zthee wrote:
jhaible wrote:
Just a blurry picture from today's work ...

JH.


Is it 14 LM13600 i see?


You have good eyes. Cool

You can also use LM13700's.
And there will be more than 14 of them when the vocoder is finished.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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zthee



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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
And there will be more than 14 of them when the vocoder is finished.

JH.


I hope we're looking at around 300+ decoupling SMT caps? Very Happy

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zthee wrote:
jhaible wrote:
And there will be more than 14 of them when the vocoder is finished.

JH.


I hope we're looking at around 300+ decoupling SMT caps? Very Happy


I will provide pads underneath each IC, as usual.
Whether you're going to use them or not is up to you. Smile
I'm pretty sure that you'd get away with one for every 3rd or 4th IC, but finding out might be harder than just soldering them all in.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Dego



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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy. Great work!
Good news for the weekend. Very Happy
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

is there one to prefer over the other concerning the LM13600 and 13700 ?
and to when do you expect that this Boards are ready for payment ? ( just for planning, not taken as a promise )
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