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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Haible Vokoder?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Serenadi wrote:
Serenadi wrote:
So I would love to built your vocoder.


I wrote this and its right.
But getting named the price, I have to put the emphasis on would love to.
300 Euro for the pcb makes the decision very hard.
So I really do not know if I'm willing to buy some.


I don't want to argue, just trying to put things into perspective: Even with 300 Euros for the PCB, this will only be a small fraction of what you'll be going to spend if you build that vocoder. If that PCB looks expensive, don't even think about buying the components!

It's my fault that I changed this project from an EMS2000 category to something in the EMS5000 range - but having made this decision, well, 40 8-pole filters have their price, and take a certain amount of board area.

I'm absolutely *not* offended or dissapointed if half of the people who showed interest are backing out - they have my full understanding. See what I wrote above: It's a project at the border of insanity, never capable of even nearly paying me back for the hours I already spent for it, but it may still be fun for some.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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tomcat



Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 141
Location: earth

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, for 300 a change to "would like" is coming to my mind as well.

Especially because one of the reasons for your price change is that some users with 0 knowledge from outside the forum ruin your calculations....

Last edited by tomcat on Fri May 06, 2011 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tomcat wrote:
Well, for 300 a change to "would like" is coming to my mind as well.

Especially because one of the reasons for your price change is that some users with 0 knowledge from outside the forum ruin your calculations....


What??

The reason for the increased price is that the circuit is twice the size now, and nothing else.

That "bad example" I mentioned earlier was to highlight what can happen with ordinary, well-tested projects. Which raises a big caveat for an oversized, 99% finished project like the vocoder. I thought that was clear.

Jh.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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decaying.sine



Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 92
Location: New Haven, CT, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
tomcat wrote:
Well, for 300 a change to "would like" is coming to my mind as well.

Especially because one of the reasons for your price change is that some users with 0 knowledge from outside the forum ruin your calculations....


What??

The reason for the increased price is that the circuit is twice the size now, and nothing else.

That "bad example" I mentioned earlier was to highlight what can happen with ordinary, well-tested projects. Which raises a big caveat for an oversized, 99% finished project like the vocoder. I thought that was clear.

Jh.


My interpretation was similar to JH's clarification so I believe it was clear. It's an enormous PCB with tremendous amounts of R & D involved. It doesn't strike me as overpriced. Good grief, look at the price of a complete analog vocoder, especially vintage ones. I don't get the impression JH price gouging so he can purchase gold embossed lighted palm trees to compete with his neighbor's lighting effects Very Happy Of course, maybe that palm tree was really in HIS yard Shocked
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synthetic



Joined: Jun 02, 2007
Posts: 76
Location: Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, if ever a project was a candidate for (pre-stuffed) SMT components, this would be it! Seems like much of the board could be stuffed this way, still leaving lots to complete as DIY I'm sure. This would bring the size of the board and price of the components down as well. Just a suggestion.
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tomcat



Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 141
Location: earth

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry, i had the conclusion that Jürgen was rethinking the vocoder project because he feared the upcoming support...
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We paid US$500 for an upgrade to Club World for our return flight from Buenos Aires, and that was all over in 13 hours! you have this PCB for life!!
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/mr



Joined: Aug 05, 2007
Posts: 223
Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Even with 300 Euros for the PCB, this will only be a small fraction of what you'll be going to spend if you build that vocoder. If that PCB looks expensive, don't even think about buying the components!

Do you have an estimate of what the component cost would be for the typical Living Vocoder builder?
It's a bit hard to judge since it depends on how small "small" is. Smile
And the more facts we have, the better for the project with its new solution.
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The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 255
Location: The Manhole

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello all,

I'd be interested in getting a board for this, if it still goes ahead, not sure how good I'd be at debugging though Wink

Charlie

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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Juergen: If i got most of the R4558 and the SSM + the capacitors which other parts are expensive ?

I'm currently 80% convinced that i take the 300 EUR road.

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numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Posts: 477
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
It's a project at the border of insanity
JH.


This phrase is really making me feel like being one of ten.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

janvanvolt wrote:
Juergen: If i got most of the R4558 and the SSM + the capacitors which other parts are expensive ?


Potentiometers, knobs, enclosure, mains transformer, ...

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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/mr



Joined: Aug 05, 2007
Posts: 223
Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This amazing project must see the light of day.
I'm in for two boards.
(Just to make the count to 10 persons even more confusing.) Wink

I'm also planning to source and order all the PCB-mount components and offer them as kits for other builders here in Sweden (and possibly also abroad in Europe), so that we save some money and don't have to do this boring and time-consuming work once for every Living Vocoder ever made. Smile
Please contact me privately if you are interested in the component kit.
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay, so i am definitely IN then.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

janvanvolt wrote:
Okay, so i am definitely IN then.


Great - then please send a mail.

We're at 7 right now. 3 More to go.

(If you send that mail, only 2 short of 10)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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decaying.sine



Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 92
Location: New Haven, CT, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anybody in the United States find a source for the 1% capacitors? Mouser, Digikey, Allied, Newark do not appear to carry them. Mouser has links for them with instructions to call so I will call tomorrow but they don't appear to be part of their catalog.

RS UK or Germany do not appear to ship to the US.
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magman



Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 361
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It looks like Newark (a subsidiary of Farnell) has the key values in stock - at a good price compared to Europe as well, here:

1% caps at Newark

Hope that helps

Regards

Magman
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decaying.sine



Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 92
Location: New Haven, CT, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

magman wrote:
It looks like Newark (a subsidiary of Farnell) has the key values in stock - at a good price compared to Europe as well, here:

1% caps at Newark

Hope that helps

Regards

Magman


That really helps. I searched Newark and must have messed it up because I didn't find them. Thank you very much. 1% capacitors ordered!
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:


Great - then please send a mail.



E-mail sent!

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

8
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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decaying.sine



Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 92
Location: New Haven, CT, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe we should recruit from Muff's DIY forum!
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Dego



Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Posts: 139
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

9. E-mail sent. Cool
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TheAncientOne



Joined: Dec 26, 2006
Posts: 146
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm still juggling finance to see if I can afford to do this - no point offering to buy a board if I can't build it in a reasonable time scale.

One thing I've noticed, here in the UK, is that RS do a significantly better price for the 1% capacitors at 1000+

Given that 10 people are going to need 144 of each, that means that a bulk buy could drop the price of the 47n caps to ~ £0.63 (UK Pounds, including VAT), and that of the 10n caps to ~ £0.64.

I have an RS account, and a UK VAT registered company, which means I could remove the 20% VAT for non-EEC buyers.

If enough people to break the 1000 off barrier were interested, I would be prepared to do a bulk buy, though postage and Paypal fees might slim down the margin, and I'd have to add a small margin to placate my accountant.

Can't see anything in stock at Mouser or Digikey: Digikey has a Panasonic that might fit, and Mouser has the 10n, but they are non-stock with a 20 week lead time.


Just a thought

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magman



Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 361
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mike,

It might be worth setting up a group buy via Newark instead. I suspect that even allowing for the VAT, Import duty and carriage, if you can get an order together for 500 or more, you will be getting the caps for $0.49 or about 30p each for the 10n before you add the tax and carriage baggage.

I would really like to be one of the first builders of this board as well, but my current analysis of my finance/project relationship is getting in the way at the moment (depends on whether the "Want" part of my brain can override this analysis, though). Wink

Regards

Magman
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numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Posts: 477
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am 99.99% there to be #10. Just shuffling numbers and sums around in my head now. Does the door slam shut at 10 if another one of us jumps within a day or so?
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