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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Interpolating Scanner: ...I ike to get some ....
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: New STGWNF Diagram Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

morbank wrote:
Thanks Jurgen! This helps a lot. But...

- When wiring to the pots from the PCB connectors that have only two pins, which pin on the pot isn't used? #2?


I don't understand this question.

morbank wrote:
- What pins should I connect to from the AC board connector to the AC jack?


For connecting a wallwart? Pins 1 + 2

morbank wrote:
- And lastly, should I replace the 470u caps with 1000uF caps like I did on the Compact Phaser.
Thanks again, Clay


Shouldn't be necessary.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Slow Down Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Done:

http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/jh_interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib.html

JH.

oh, that simple !
Thanks alot !
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morbank



Joined: Jan 30, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:29 pm    Post subject: New STGWNF Diagram Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
When wiring to the pots from the PCB connectors that have only two pins, which pin on the pot isn't used? #2?

I don't understand this question.


Sorry, let me try again. Some of the PCB connectors have 3 pins, like the Depth, Rate and Manual connectors, while other PCB connectors have only 2 pins, like the Depth CV, Rate CV and Scan CV. So, when I wire a pot to a PCB connector with only 2 pins which of the 3 pins on the pot do I not connect?
-Clay
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: New STGWNF Diagram Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

morbank wrote:
Quote:
When wiring to the pots from the PCB connectors that have only two pins, which pin on the pot isn't used? #2?

I don't understand this question.


Sorry, let me try again. Some of the PCB connectors have 3 pins, like the Depth, Rate and Manual connectors, while other PCB connectors have only 2 pins, like the Depth CV, Rate CV and Scan CV. So, when I wire a pot to a PCB connector with only 2 pins which of the 3 pins on the pot do I not connect?
-Clay


I'm sorry, I still don't understand.
I thought the connections are shown in the drawings I've made.
Like, an input attenuator potentiometer going with its cw end to an input jack, with its wiper to the right pin of a 2-pin PCB connector, and with its ccw end to the GND connection of the input jack and to the left pin of the PCB connector.
Not in general - just picking an example!

So, when you look at the drawings on http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/jh_interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib.html
- which specific connection are you asking about?

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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morbank



Joined: Jan 30, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:47 pm    Post subject: New STGWNF Diagram Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Like, an input attenuator potentiometer going with its cw end to an input jack, with its wiper to the right pin of a 2-pin PCB connector, and with its ccw end to the GND connection of the input jack and to the left pin of the PCB connector.


I get it now, and your diagram is clear. I had misinterpreted you drawing to mean I should connect the wiper to the CW pin on the pot. Thanks for clarifying.
-Clay
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morbank



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Got Power? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got my Scanner together (as per the combo diagram) but when I give it juice I'm not getting any signs of life. I have a drum machine plugged into input 1 (vca1_in) and the output connected to my mixer. I'm not using any CV triggers, do I need to? Should I be seeing the LED's light up and move? I've checked and double checked for faults but I haven't found anything. Jurgen, could you give me some specific info on how to set up the Scanner to be used as a Waveshaper? If I'm inundating you with to many dumb questions just let me know and I'll take a break!
-Clay
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: Got Power? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

morbank wrote:
I've got my Scanner together (as per the combo diagram) but when I give it juice I'm not getting any signs of life. I have a drum machine plugged into input 1 (vca1_in) and the output connected to my mixer. I'm not using any CV triggers, do I need to? Should I be seeing the LED's light up and move? I've checked and double checked for faults but I haven't found anything. Jurgen, could you give me some specific info on how to set up the Scanner to be used as a Waveshaper? If I'm inundating you with to many dumb questions just let me know and I'll take a break!
-Clay


Before you try anything else, one of the 9 LEDs must be on.
manual Scan pot connected, you should be able to get the middle LED to be active, near the center position of the pot.
Only when you get the LED dot moving left and right with the manual Scan potentiometer you should try anything else.
If you *don't* get any LED lighting up, something is basically wrong, and you have to start troubleshooting. Power supply voltages first ...

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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morbank



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:43 am    Post subject: Got Power? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Before you try anything else, one of the 9 LEDs must be on.


Ok, I'll just keep checking my work. Thanks.
-Clay
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Building the IS with only 4 Inputs:
Am i right that i just have to Bridge R13-16 and R21-23 ? ( or in general: just some of the 1K resistors there in the Chain )



then. building without on board PSU for Modular use:
I have to make a addon board for the powerconnector.
there are no Ferrit beads.....should i add some ?
and would it make sense to clean the power also in the opposite direction because of the LEDs ? just 2 caps to Grnd on the otherside of the Beads ?
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morbank



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Capacitor Polarity? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While checking my work I found I have soldered the capacitors so that the + symbol on the pcb matches up with the positive lead on the capacitors. But on the bottom of the pcb the square soldering pad is soldered to the negative lead of the capacitor. I thought square pads were meant for the + lead of the capacitor? If I have my cap's soldered in backwards what damage should I expect to my scanner?
-Clay[/i]
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
Building the IS with only 4 Inputs:
Am i right that i just have to Bridge R13-16 and R21-23 ? ( or in general: just some of the 1K resistors there in the Chain )


Probably. I could only tell after extensive simulations. There might be some catch I haven't thought of.

I see two other ways to reduce the number of channels:

(1) Simply normalize the last channel you are using (Input 4) to all the higher ones (Input 5 ... 9).
Big downside: A waste of the expensive matched transitor pairs.
Probably doesn't matter if you have Futurlec's cheap LM394's - but is a killer with MAT-02's.

(2) Route the control currents of channel 4 ... 9 all to the emitter of channel 4's transitor pair.
That would leave all the control current circuitry in place, which is an overhead, but these are all extremely cheap components.
The way to do this would be (untested, just from theory):
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/interpolating_scanner_2008_sch.pdf
Omit U5 ... U9 (the transitor pairs) and D5 ... D9 (the LEDs).
Then connect the collectors of the following transistors together:
Q11, Q14, Q17, Q20, Q23, Q25.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:

then. building without on board PSU for Modular use:
I have to make a addon board for the powerconnector.
there are no Ferrit beads.....should i add some ?


Can't hurt!

Quote:

and would it make sense to clean the power also in the opposite direction because of the LEDs ? just 2 caps to Grnd on the otherside of the Beads ?


Can't hurt either.
But then again, the LEDs only draw 2mA, and the total current thru all LEDs is constant.
But the total current thru the whole module is *not* constant (I don't know any synth module that has this!), so filtering can never be wrong.
Personally, I'd just try if it's necessary, and then add what is required.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:12 am    Post subject: Re: Capacitor Polarity? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

morbank wrote:
While checking my work I found I have soldered the capacitors so that the + symbol on the pcb matches up with the positive lead on the capacitors. But on the bottom of the pcb the square soldering pad is soldered to the negative lead of the capacitor. I thought square pads were meant for the + lead of the capacitor? If I have my cap's soldered in backwards what damage should I expect to my scanner?
-Clay[/i]


+ symbol on board means positive lead of capacitor.

(Care must be taken with capacitors' marking of the positive lead, though: There are actually capacitors with a fat line indicating + that could be read as a - sign, which is a stupid labelling we have to live with. But *if* you have a cap with such a marking, you never find a "+" sign on the cap.)

I don't know of a convention for square holes and polarity.
My PCB design package often uses a square hole for Pin 1, and for the negative lead of capacitors, but I would never rely on that. The silkscreened "+" is what matters.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Funky40 wrote:

then. building without on board PSU for Modular use:
I have to make a addon board for the powerconnector.
there are no Ferrit beads.....should i add some ?


Can't hurt!

.

Instead of adding a Addonboard only for the powerconnector i prefer to use a dotcom connector and then to hack this as on the Tau.
I 'd not found any lettering for the powerpins for that connector used when built with internal Psu.
Which pin is V+ ? Is it that one on the left near the lettering AC ?
then just wire to the alternate inputs/7815/7915 pins ?
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
jhaible wrote:
Funky40 wrote:

then. building without on board PSU for Modular use:
I have to make a addon board for the powerconnector.
there are no Ferrit beads.....should i add some ?


Can't hurt!

.

Instead of adding a Addonboard only for the powerconnector i prefer to use a dotcom connector and then to hack this as on the Tau.
I 'd not found any lettering for the powerpins for that connector used when built with internal Psu.
Which pin is V+ ? Is it that one on the left near the lettering AC ?
then just wire to the alternate inputs/7815/7915 pins ?


Here is where the +15, GND and -15 go if you don't use the on-board PSU:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/interpolating_scanner_2008_15VDC_components.pdf

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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morbank



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Capacitor Polarity? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

There are actually capacitors with a fat line indicating + that could be read as a - sign, which is a stupid labelling we have to live with. But *if* you have a cap with such a marking, you never find a "+" sign on the cap.)


This is what happened! Thanks for the warning. Do you think I damaged my Scanner?

jhaible wrote:

I don't know of a convention for square holes and polarity.
My PCB design package often uses a square hole for Pin 1, and for the negative lead of capacitors, but I would never rely on that. The silkscreened "+" is what matters.
JH.


Good to know.
-Clay
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: Capacitor Polarity? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

morbank wrote:
jhaible wrote:

There are actually capacitors with a fat line indicating + that could be read as a - sign, which is a stupid labelling we have to live with. But *if* you have a cap with such a marking, you never find a "+" sign on the cap.)


This is what happened! Thanks for the warning. Do you think I damaged my Scanner?


Unlikely - but you probably killed the caps, which in turn activated the overcurrent protection of the PSU.
Replace these caps, and try again. If there are no other errors, it will most likely work then.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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morbank



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Capacitor Polarity? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

There are actually capacitors with a fat line indicating + that could be read as a - sign, which is a stupid labelling we have to live with. But *if* you have a cap with such a marking, you never find a "+" sign on the cap.)


morbank wrote:

This is what happened! Thanks for the warning. Do you think I damaged my Scanner?


Ok, I jumped the gun this isn't what happened, looking at the "fat Line" I can see a small (-) symbol. So I do have them correctly soldered after-all.
-Clay
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Here is where the +15, GND and -15 go if you don't use the on-board PSU:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/interpolating_scanner_2008_15VDC_components.pdf

JH.

Thank you, i know this one.
I need to know the other connector because i can solder there a Dotcom connector in, maybe.......
I'm not shure about your pinout on that connector
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
jhaible wrote:
Here is where the +15, GND and -15 go if you don't use the on-board PSU:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/interpolating_scanner_2008_15VDC_components.pdf

JH.

Thank you, i know this one.
I need to know the other connector because i can solder there a Dotcom connector in, maybe.......
I'm not shure about your pinout on that connector


But which connector??

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/interpolating_scanner_2008_15VDC_components.pdf

JH.

sorry [germanmode on] (its only about the powerconnector )
du verwendest hier im Bild die pads für die LM7815/7915 um dort mit dem Strom reinzugehen.

Ich möchte den "normalen" stromstecker benutzen den man benutz wenn man MIT onboard PSU baut.
Also den hier benutzten:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/interpolating_scanner_2008_components.pdf
Die pads sind aber leider nicht näher mit V+ und V- bezeichnet, auch nicht auf der Platine.
Da steht nur AC daneben.


Beim Tau Phaser konnte ich ja nen Dotcom stecker verbauen, die Strombelegung passte.
Hier bin ich mir eben nicht ganz sicher.
Ich hab probiert anhand der nachfolgenden Bauteile drauf zu kommen obs passt, war aber nie ganz sicher obs stimmt was ich mir zusammenkombinierte.
Falls es hier auch passt mit der Strombelegung dann kann ich mir die Addon platine sparen. Das würde wahrscheinlich eh ne wackelige angelegenheit was ich nicht so gut finde.
Ich dachte ich kann ja dann auch drähte verlöten.
Ne kleine zeichnung a la Tau phaser für nen alternativen hack der modular-stromversorgung wäre cool.
sorry für die mühe. [germanmode off ]
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I see - you're talking about the 5-pin connector I'm using to get *AC* into the onboard PSU.

Well, that's easy! Look at http://www.jhaible.heim.at/interpolating_scanner_and_scanvib/interpolating_scanner_2008_sch.pdf

If you omit the bridge rectifier, you have pins 2 and 4 grounded, and pins 1, 3 and 5 unconnected.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, i know now how to do.

I take now the Square pad from the AC Connector as the +pad and soldered my Dotcom connector vise versa in.( regarding to the drawing on the Board )
Then i will wire from the rectifier pads to the "external PSU" Inputs.
Ok, two wires missed, then my JH Interpolating Scanner is ready for final wiring.

thanks for the help Jürgen
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have one, not all finished yet, No CV inputs so far.........but:..........boahhhh Shocked ( and i must debug input 1, Hopefully it is only the LED )
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, LED is debugged, and all finished and working.
some Feedback:

i have the 9 pots vertical on a 5HU ( Dotcom ) Panel.
the (mini)Jacks are beside and the LEDs inbetween.
Note: i find this setup NOT good.
I can't see the LEDs exept wehn i stand directly in front of the panel ( whats not the case when i patch and tweak )
To mee it seems _really_ important that you can see the LEDs when modulating and tweaking the Scanner !


the possibilitys are tremendous. Good optical control really welcome !
Bring this maybe into account when layouting your panels.
what Dave Brown did with his clear shaft pots might be an interesting solution.( see the scanner Chorus thread )
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