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Argitoth
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 152 Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject:
Thinking about buying Nord Modular G2 Subject description: I've never owned a hardware synth! |
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Hey doodz. I'm thinking about buying a Nord Modular G2 because of its modular flexability. But the whole reason I want to get into hardware synths is so that I can achieve higher quality sounds than my software junks. Mainly, I want screaming leads, not the crap from TB303, moogs, or any traditional synths. I want leads that are original, expressive, and very tonally different. I think Nord Modular is the best for this because of its modularness.
Here's some of the synth sounds I've always wanted to have:
1 minute sound demo: http://shup.com/Shup/47125/synth-needed2.mp3 (all screamyness)
10 minute sound demo: http://shup.com/Shup/47121/synth-needed.mp3 (general stuff)
I'm attaching a few patches I made with the Modular Demo. Am I right in assuming that the sound coming out of my computer sucks compared to the sound I'll get from the actual Nord hardware?
Here's a few other concerns. I was trying out the demo and it seemed there was no way to do the most basic thing which is modulate the pitch of an osc from near 0hz to beyond human hearing without being in the "Partial" mode. I want to be sure that I can tweak the hell out of Nord G2 and it won't sound like crap like software does. I want to push all modulation sources to their limit. I want patches that sound nice and unstable, not perfect like software.
I'm also a big noob when it comes to using a modular synth. Please help me understand why I should get a Nord G2!
Edit: Oh yeah, and I would REALLY love to hear some Nord Modular audio demos. All the ones I found on the net so far have not revealed the quality of the oscs. However, I did hear some awesome PM stuff.
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I created this patch because I'm so angry that I don't have a good synth. |
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I Am Agry.pch2 |
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1.86 KB |
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This is when I became even more angry. |
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I Am Angry 2.pch2 |
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1.75 KB |
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Yet another lead that screams till your brain explodes. |
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I Am Angry 3.pch2 |
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1.85 KB |
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1349 Time(s) |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:43 am Post subject:
Re: Thinking about buying Nord Modular G2 Subject description: I've never owned a hardware synth! |
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Argitoth wrote: |
I'm attaching a few patches I made with the Modular Demo. Am I right in assuming that the sound coming out of my computer sucks compared to the sound I'll get from the actual Nord hardware? |
There are different opinions on this. There have been alot of discussions about the DA-converters used in the G2. Some people think they are fine, others find something seriously lacking. Using the demo version with a computer has the advantage in that it allows you to use DA-converters of your own choice. However, the demo version is so strongly limited in many other ways -no audio inputs for processing, no MIDI modules (the G2 is the best hardware machine for MIDI ever built), resources equalling only one DSP... Personally, I don't hear much difference between the demo and the hardware version.
Argitoth wrote: | Here's a few other concerns. I was trying out the demo and it seemed there was no way to do the most basic thing which is modulate the pitch of an osc from near 0hz to beyond human hearing without being in the "Partial" mode. |
There isn't "no way", but actually three ways to do this: 1)just use an LFO instead , 2)push the osc frequency down with a massive negative control signal 3)build your own DIY oscillator using "low level patching techniques".
Argitoth wrote: | I want to be sure that I can tweak the hell out of Nord G2 and it won't sound like crap like software does. I want to push all modulation sources to their limit. I want patches that sound nice and unstable, not perfect like software. |
The G2 is a digital system running on proprietary software too. And by their very nature, all digital systems are more stable, more precise and "perfect" than their analogue counterparts. However, it is exactly this precision and controlability paired with modular flexibility that allows you to build chaotic unstable behaviour of a richness and musicality that is hard to get any other way -IF you know what you're doing. Simply pushing modulation sources to their limits will not do the trick but simply cause things to crap out. (But then, some people like the sound of digital circuits crapping out. It's all a matter of taste I guess.)
Here's a link to a simple chaotic network I made. It's basically just 3 oscillators and not much more. Klick through the variations to get an impression of the vast potential for "instability" within even such a simple arrangement.
See here:
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-10243.html
(works in the demo)
Argitoth wrote: | I'm also a big noob when it comes to using a modular synth. Please help me understand why I should get a Nord G2! |
Modular synthesis, due to its vastness, has a steep learning curve. Be prepared to pay your dues. That being said, the G2 makes it about as easy as it can be. In terms of ease of use, it beats any digital modular environment available hands down. Some people find it even more convenient and fast than a real analogue modular.
If you have the time, determination and dedication, it is a fascinating, wonderful, very rewarding (and endless) journey. When I bought my G2 four years ago I was a total noob too. Within these 4 years, I've progressed so far that I've even ended up developing new patching techniques that make the G2 go way beyond what it is supposed to be able to do (volatile sampling, granular synthesis, elastic audio etc.) After 4 years of intense use, the G2 amazes me more than when I first bought it. I love it.
Argitoth wrote: | Edit: Oh yeah, and I would REALLY love to hear some Nord Modular audio demos. All the ones I found on the net so far have not revealed the quality of the oscs. However, I did hear some awesome PM stuff. |
You have the demo version which gives you a good impression of how the basic oscs sound like (save for the DA-conversion as mentioned before). That being said, there is SO much you can do with a oscillator within a modular environment that IMO it doesn't make that much sense to judge the machine by the sound of the basic oscillators. That's not what modular synthesis is about, IMO.
just my proverbial 2cc
best,
tim |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24075 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:31 am Post subject:
Re: Thinking about buying Nord Modular G2 Subject description: I've never owned a hardware synth! |
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tim wrote: | There isn't "no way", but actually three ways |
Four ... use linear FM on a 0 HZ osc. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Argitoth
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 152 Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:56 am Post subject:
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Listen to the MP3 I posted above. The sounds were achieved with the following:
tari ST with SMPTE Track Sequencer
Roland JV-880 with Vintage Synth Expansion
Roland Juno 60
Roland Juno 106
Roland TB-303
Yamaha AN1X
Akai S20
Akai S01
Alesis Midiverb II
Boss SE-50
Boss SE-70
Aphex Exciter C2
Ensoniq DP4
I have no idea which is doing all the screaming, but it seems to me that if I really want the sound I love I need an analog synth or distortion. Until I hear Nord recreating one of those synths in the 1-minute demo, there's no way I can be convinced that Nord Modular is what I'm looking for. From what I read, Nord won't sound any better than software.
I was thinking about getting a Sherman Filterbank2. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:23 am Post subject:
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It is quite possible to make the G2 recreate some oldish synth.. sometimes you might need some additional magic though.. but essentially the G2 is a synthesis powerhouse and it should be seen as simply a great synth and nothing else. If you really spend some serious quality time in the forums here you will discover that the Clavia digital modular synths are really something special.
This also seems like something that is slightly tilting into an analog vs. digital discussion. We do have a trillion of those all over the place already, and you might want to check out some of those ASAP. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:32 am Post subject:
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Software junks?
I´m sure you could produce the exact same stuff as in one of those files using Reason + a few magic tweaks and make it sound more analog than the same music would sound using all Roland and Korg gear pre 1983.
Screaming leads? A stack of S1000 samplers run through some moogerfoogers and then miked off a cute ûber-pimped PA? _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Argitoth
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 152 Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:51 am Post subject:
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I really shouldn't say analog synth. I don't think I'll ever buy an analog synth. I'd be getting Virtual Analog modelling stuff.
Anyway, seriously. We don't need to debate anything about analog vs digital. All I know is that I've never heard anything come close to stuff I hear coming from hardware synths whether virtual analog or real analog. I know what my ears like and all I'm trying to do is find a synth that can please my ears. So far, will all the evidence I've gathered about Nord Modular, it seems that Nord just can't sound good in a pure and simple way like some other synths sound. I just listened to some Roland SH-201 demos and I really loved the unison saw sound I was hearing.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?objectId=769
I just want raw power, raw sound quality. Snappy envelopes, delicious unison, overdriven oscs (which I'm pretty sure Nord does not have, distortion does not replace this) I don't think any amount of Nord patching will replace that.
Well, it looks like I've overstayed my welcome. Could anyone direct me to a forum where I can get help on finding the right synth? |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:02 am Post subject:
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Argitoth wrote: | Snappy envelopes, delicious unison, overdriven oscs (which I'm pretty sure Nord does not have..) |
Who told you that? _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Argitoth
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 152 Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:20 am Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: | Argitoth wrote: | Snappy envelopes, delicious unison, overdriven oscs (which I'm pretty sure Nord does not have..) |
Who told you that? |
Well again I'm a noob, but a distortion effect does not equal overdriven oscs and I don't know how to overdrive the oscs in Nord.
Here's what an overdriven osc sounds like on Vember Audio Surge VST: http://shup.com/Shup/47463/overdriven.mp3 (starts off low gain, goes to high gain, using the filter to change the timbre.)
Edit: If you can play RAM files, this Novation Nova demo really impressed me: http://www.vintagesynth.org/audio/nova.ram (Media Player Classic can play RAM) |
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Mohoyoho
Joined: Dec 03, 2003 Posts: 1632 Location: Tennessee
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Argitoth
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 152 Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject:
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Mohoyoho wrote: | Quote: | I just want raw power, raw sound quality. Snappy envelopes, delicious unison, overdriven oscs |
Sounds like you are describing the Moog Little Phatty. Although it overdrives the filter. |
I'm a noob (how many times have I said that now?) but overdriving the filters might be same or similar thing. Hey, and I tried out the Moog Little Phatty, it's definintey not for me. I'm still researching trying to figure what synth I want. So far Novation stuff have really sounded great. I was talking to a guy on the phone and he said that the Novation V-station (VST) wouldn't sound as good as the hardware. However, some of you are saying that the sound coming from my computer from the Nord Editor demo is the same from the hardware. I'm really confused. Is there or is there not a difference between hardware and software?
Edit: You know what I'd really like to hear? The patches I made straight from the Nord Hardware. |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject:
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Do you work for Novation by any chance? |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject:
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Argitoth wrote: | I really shouldn't say analog synth. I don't think I'll ever buy an analog synth.
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All of the reasons you listed really support buying one. _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. |
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Argitoth
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 152 Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject:
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cappy2112 wrote: | Argitoth wrote: | I really shouldn't say analog synth. I don't think I'll ever buy an analog synth.
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All of the reasons you listed really support buying one. |
No kidding, and I figured Nord Modular G2 would deliver, however I have yet to hear something (something like in the audio I posted) striaght from Nord Modular Hardware. |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject:
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You can overdrive filters and oscs in many ways with the G2, either by using the saturate and overdrive modules, or by patching your own custom nonlinearities. There are some overdrive patches here (especially those by Rob Hordijk) which sound fantastic. (Robs "tubescreamer" is still my all time favourite.)
If you are a novice and are looking for quick and easy solutions to satisfy your musical needs, then indeed the G2 might not be the ideal tool for you. The G2 can deliver virtually (no pun intended ) anything you want, but it requires that you develop a true technical understanding of what it is that you really need. Attributes like "raw power", "raw sound quality", while valid, won't help you much if you don't know how to translate them into the language of synthesis. There is no synthesis parameter called "raw power" as this is rather general and subjective term and probably means something different for everyone anyway. That's what I meant with the steep learning curve. You'll have learn what "raw power" means to you, and then find how to patch it. That's the long but fascinating and rewarding journey I was talking about. The G2 isn't a quick fix.
I would be careful not to buy into any of those "hardware vs. software" or "digital vs. analogue" myths. A digital synth isalways software, either running on DSPs or on a computer CPU. Sonic differences between digital synths is due only to the algorithm design and the DA-converters. The G2 and the G2 demo share the same algorithms, so it's down to the converters to make a difference.
And an amusing digital-analog short story: I always thought of myself as an analogue afficionado, and searched many analogue synths for a specific, very special, personal type of sound I had in my head for years. I finally found it on the ... DX7 (on the DX7-emulation on the G2, to be precise)
Anyway, good luck with your search. |
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Argitoth
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 152 Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject:
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tim wrote: | If you are a novice and are looking for quick and easy solutions to satisfy your musical needs, then indeed the G2 might not be the ideal tool for you. |
Quick and easy is not what I'm about. I'm about getting sound quality at any cost, be it lots of time or lots of money or both. What I lack is knowledge. That's why I came to this forum asking for help. I don't know what Nord G2 is capable of, but I assumed that no modular system can make up for raw power. Like I keep saying, I'd like to hear it, since you claim that the modularity can make anything. I really don't want to leave here just because you are telling me that Nord G2 is not for me. I'd like to decide that with my ears. |
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elektro80
Site Admin
Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject:
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tim wrote: | There is no synthesis parameter called "raw power" |
Indeed...
OT.. that reminds me of that old Brian Eno story..he labelled one of the pots on his minimoog with a sheep symbol.. because turning that pot made the sound kinda wooly. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: | tim wrote: | There is no synthesis parameter called "raw power" |
Indeed...
OT.. that reminds me of that old Brian Eno story..he labelled one of the pots on his minimoog with a sheep symbol.. because turning that pot made the sound kinda wooly. |
the predecessor to the fuzz pedal, no doubt _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject:
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Right.. here is one source:
Quote: | What we discovered was that Brian was - AT THAT TIME - actually quite naive in the area of technical expertise, it was not his forte. In the first days in the studio together (Brian came in after we'd already recorded the bulk of the material), I remember looking at his Mini-Moog synthesizer. It was the first one I'd ever gotten my hands on and he had all these little pieces of tape stuck by the keys with the names of the notes written on them, plus little pictures stuck on adjacent to some of the control knobs. I pointed to a cute picture of a sheep and asked, "What's that mean?" He replied, "Well, I don't know what that knob does but, when I turn it, it makes the sound 'wooly', so the picture of the sheep (sheep...wool...get it?) reminds me..." I was quite taken aback, I didn't know what to say to that! I think I just nodded and said, "Umm... good idea!" From that moment on, I had a very strong suspicion that Brian was not the technical master we'd had in mind!
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Warren Cann
http://www.discog.info/ultravox-interview.html _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Thinking about buying Nord Modular G2 Subject description: I've never owned a hardware synth! |
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Seems you like phase sync + distortion + loads of other effects
The G2 can do this but so can a very long list of other synths.
Have you tried the Radius or R3? |
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Argitoth
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 152 Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject:
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Hey guys, I'm really loving what I am hearing from those distortion units. I think I might actually want to buy Nord G2 now. Now this is an important point to understand. I seem to like what I hear when I rout modules into itself creating crazy feedback behavior. I was playing with the routing in the distortion patches you posted. This is exactly what I'm looking for in a synth, just pure raw power, pure unstability, just let the synth play itself, so to speak. I like to achieve sounds that take on a character of their own, it's just so inspiring to use this kind of synth when it does this. This means I am creating a sound for myself, not using some generic crap like TB303 or Moog. (excuse my english)
There's one more requirement I have before I am set on buying the G2 and that is snappy envelopes to create those nice trance arpeggios. and a decent supersaw sound. Can anyone help me out again? Post some example patches? |
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Argitoth
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 152 Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject:
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Here's an example of something that I just can't figure out:
http://www.vintagesynth.org/audio/nova.ram
Listen to the screaming synth bass that comes on 0:30. I think some of you might just think it's just a standard distorted saw with chorus. But I hear more than that. Listen to it. It has a "THOUM" sound to it, not a hard "DOOM" sound. This is an example of the subtlety I'm looking from a hardware synth. I'd pay big bucks for such a small subtlety. |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
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