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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
Tuning my SN Voice
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crashlander42



Joined: Oct 21, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:06 pm    Post subject:  Tuning my SN Voice
Subject description: FIXED IT! I WIN!! Thanks all who gave advice!!
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I recently completed the my SN Voice board and just set about tuning it tonight and the thing is driving me insane. Fully clockwise on the V/Oct Trim it is ALMOST there. I feel like if I could give the thing just another half turn it would be there, but no. If I turn the trim CCW it just gets worse (notes spread further, if that makes any sense). Any thoughts on what would cause this, and how I could fix is? I've tuned several VCO's now and haven't run into this before.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Last edited by crashlander42 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Probably a stupid question, but are you following the procedure on the page here?

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/snvoiceconstructionandcalibration/

If so, does it respond well in the lower area and not so well in the higher area?

I've been stymied before when calibrating V/Oct if I've left any flux underneath the board on the transistor pair.

Just shooting in the dark - I haven't tuned one up since it was on the breadboard, but I recall it not....being...easy at all. But I hates tuning VCOs anyway, don't know why, but I hate it......

Maybe someone who's built from PCB can chime in.

Cheerios,
Scott

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crashlander42



Joined: Oct 21, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Followed the calibration instructions to the letter (I think).

Can't figure it out. I checked for flux and cleaned all I found. I've replaced all components in the expo section. I've cursed at it.

The HF trim doesn't seem to be effecting anything. I'm thinking this might some of the problem. I've replaced the diode, R25 and R30 to see if they might be the problem. I've taken the trim pot out and tested it and it works fine. I see negative voltage on the pin of the HF trim that faces IC3b pin 7 and C1. It ranges from -.74 when the coarse range knob is fully CCW and -13.6 at full CW. Is this normal? I'm stymied.

mad, short circuit mad, short circuit mad, short circuit

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's been over two years since I had the thing on the BB, so I'm hoping someone who's recently tuned one will chime in.

Can you tune the lower voltages to V/Oct linearity - say the first two octaves? I didn't have much of a problem doing that (IIRC) but getting higher octaves to correspond was much more difficult.

An ultimately stupid question: do you have another SN76477N to sub in?

Is it the big roach thing or the smaller "new" version?

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Tronato



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!
I'm followong this thread with great interest because I will find myself having to do this in the near future.

However the following REALLY is a stupid question:

Scott, I see you write IIRC in a lot of your e-mails... what does it mean?

Told you it was a stupid question...
Thanks!

TRON
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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tronato wrote:
Hello!
I'm followong this thread with great interest because I will find myself having to do this in the near future.

However the following REALLY is a stupid question:

Scott, I see you write IIRC in a lot of your e-mails... what does it mean?

Told you it was a stupid question...
Thanks!

TRON

If I Remember Correct it means... err ...
Very Happy

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Tronato



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

Thanks Fonick!

Please excuse the interruption of the thread...

Thanks!

TRON
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crashlander42



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I swapped my SN chip and it's still acting the same. I can't even tune the first couple of octaves. It's almost there. It gets a little worse going up the range. I still feel like the fact that the HF trim dosen't respond means something. maybe I should take the trimmer out and stick a 1 meg resistor in there. I started my tuning at 60Hz.

I'm using the big roach version.

I promised myself I wouldn't fight with this module today. I'll walk away from it and come back and maybe I can figure it out.

Let me know if anyone has a suggestion.

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Tronato



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

Has anybody (apart from Sir Thomas Henry and Scott) managed to tune this little devil?

I hope mine doesn't give me these problems when it's my turn. I haven't finished mine because I'm still undecided as to where or how to box it (initially it will be a stand alone box) and then I'll add the Super Contoller if I ever get the SN Voice to work properly.

Thanks!

TRON

PS: I said Sir Thomas Henry because his name has this Anthony Hopkins or Laurence Olivier sound to it...absolutely no offense meant Scott (LOL).

Last edited by Tronato on Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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crashlander42



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just because I'm having problems doesn't mean you will. I bought this board off of the first run of SN-Voice boards nearly 2 years ago. I populated about half of it, set it aside and just finished it about a month or so ago.

When I originally started populating the board I had just started getting into electronics and only had a few guitar pedals and a Soundlab under my belt. I probably made some mistake somewhere and just haven't found it yet.

Other than being slightly out of tune my SNVoice is awesome. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually.

What I'm trying to say is don't let my experience discourage you. My problems have nothing yo do with the boards or the circuit. These boards from what I can tell have a pretty good track record.

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Tronato



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello...

Now I'm REALLY depressed!

If you managed to get a SoundLab to work you should be a cinch away from tunning the SN-Voice.

Imagine what awaits me... I couldn't get a Weird Sound Generator (AKA WSG) to work!

As I have said before in this fine forum, maybe I should just quit this hobby and return to Formula One racing...

Thanks!

TRON
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crashlander42



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Opps! I was trying to encourage you!

Well My first WSG sucked and my first soundlab never worked right. I ended up scrapping them both and starting over. I learned a lot from trouble shooting those.

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Luka



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i had the same issue with my cgs vco, i could get it almost there, it would start that phasing sound when it gets close but then the pot ran out. i think i must have has some cv pot settings wrong on the panel. it still isnt done as i am re-panelling the module. though i tried last night and failed again,. sigh.

i hate tuning things, i've learnt from this that i aint got no golden ears thats for sure.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the SN voice is a proven design (what else to expect from bill? he does an amazing job). i built one from the first batch and it works fine.
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i perf-boarded 2 sn-voices (ouch!) and built one from bill's pcb. all three are great over 4-5 octaves. i use them regularly to record music and am pretty happy with their tuning and stability.

i never had to retune them, even after moving my whole modular to a new flat.

are you using lm394's?

cheers,
michel

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crashlander42



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yup. I'm using LM394's. I'm sure I just did something stupid. I'll figure it out eventually.
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crashlander42



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject:  
Subject description: FIXED! I WIN!
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Soooo... I noticed that when I had my thumb on the tempco that it would go in perfect tune, so I added a 100ohm resistor inline with it and now the tuning is perfect around 5 or 6 octaves. Go figure. I knew if I walked away from it for a while I'd figure it out!

Any idea where I might have gone wrong or do you think it was just a slight variation in the SN chip?

Either way I'm happy.

Thanks for the advice.

Very Happy

Now you get building on your SNVoice Tron!

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Tronato



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

Congratulations Crashlander!

About that 100 ohm resistor, does "inline" mean in paralell or in series?

Thanks!

TRON
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Any idea where I might have gone wrong


Yeah - you didn't have a 100R resistor inline with the tempco. Laughing

But, seriously this is good info to have in case someone else runs into the same situation. Maybe variation with the SN76477? I dunno, but I'm glad to see you figured it out and have it going in that fab modular of yours.

Cheerios,
Scott

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
As I have said before in this fine forum, maybe I should just quit this hobby and return to Formula One racing...


Just remember, every failure will make you a better technician/engineer. It gives you a chance to explore the problems and learn a great deal. Keep going and never give up man !!!!! Very Happy

Bill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
But, seriously this is good info to have in case someone else runs into the same situation. Maybe variation with the SN76477? I dunno, but I'm glad to see you figured it out and have it going in that fab modular of yours.


Could add this to my documentation, just in case ......... Wink

Bill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
the SN voice is a proven design (what else to expect from bill? he does an amazing job).


Well, I can take credit for the PCB, THANKS, but it's really TH who did the great job of making the 76477 sing in tune Wink

Thanks Fonik, you have always been a great supporter to me !!

Bill
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm finally calibrating my SN-voice and the V/Oct trim works perfectly for 5-6 octaves. Very Happy

However, the Tri offset can't go low enough so that the triangle wave oscillates around ground.

I'm running my SN-voice on 12V supply. Do I need any modification to lower the Tri further? I'm thinking about the values of R52 and R21... Confused

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crashlander42



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

About that 100 ohm resistor, does "inline" mean in paralell or in series?


I meant in series.

State Machine's SN voice board was great. It was my introduction to making connectors and actually using headers (practice for the Klee). I'm quite fond of my collection of Fonitronic modules as well. In fact, I don't think I've ever bought a PCB I didn't like off of electro-music.com . Nothing but respect for the lot of ya.

I'd like to see some more TH PCB offerings.

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Tronato



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

I can't figure it out... if the tempco (R7) must be as close as possible to the LM394 and even the use of Thermal Compound is recommended, where do you physically fit in the extra 100R resistor?

Could you post a picture of that detail?

Thanks!

TRON
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