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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Resonator Section of Polymoog ...
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Interested?
Interested
95%
 95%  [ 43 ]
Not intersted
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 45

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2thick4uni



Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I've just done a quick Google search and it appears that Tyco have a range of dual gang sliders from 30mm to to 75mm which RS Components stock (so this should make them available just about anywhere).

Not cheap, at about 7GBP each, but at least they're not unobtanium. A group-buy might not be a bad idea if people want to follow the slider route.


Do you have an RS part number? Had a look on RS site and can't find any dual gang sliders..........

Allan
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magman



Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 361
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a page on the RS UK site:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=retrieveTfg&binCount=10&Ne=4294957561&Ntt=slider+dual&Ntk=I18NAll&Nr=AND%28avl%3auk%2csearchDiscon_uk%3aN%29&Ntx=mode%2bmatchallpartial&N=4294955100&Nty=1

Looking at the manufacturers application note (from a link on the RS site), anything with a part number of WAxAn.... will be a dual pot.

Take your pick of slider length value or LIN/LOG, etc.

Regards

Magman
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.jhaible.de/resonator/polymoogresodemo1.mp3
Playing with tiny potentiometers and aligator clips instead of a switch ... Sound comes from the OB-8, and these is some reverb.
Mainly checking if everything works as intended ... for a *good* demo, lisen to Kenneth Elhardt's demo on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XUiJi5153Y

Website with PCB preview:
http://www.jhaible.de/resonator/resonator.html

Blank PCB will be 27.00 Euros + 6.00 Shipping, as usual.
(Available in a few week.)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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a100user



Joined: Oct 28, 2003
Posts: 148
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very nice Jurgen,

I confess that I'm surprised by the size of the PCB. Especially as I was hoping to put it behind a Euro panel.

It's too cool a project to worry about that though so a separate case will be in order or a very big Euro panel which will allow for long travel sliders Wink

Looking forward to it.
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2thick4uni



Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Here's a page on the RS UK site:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=retrieveTfg&binCount=10&Ne=4294957561&Ntt=slider+dual&Ntk=I18NAll&Nr=AND%28avl%3auk%2csearchDiscon_uk%3aN%29&Ntx=mode%2bmatchallpartial&N=4294955100&Nty=1

Looking at the manufacturers application note (from a link on the RS site), anything with a part number of WAxAn.... will be a dual pot.

Take your pick of slider length value or LIN/LOG, etc.

Regards

Magman


Excellent! Didn't realise these were dual gang........

Thanks Smile
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shawn



Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Posts: 209
Location: savannah

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please add me to the list for one PCB. This sounds great.
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
http://www.jhaible.de/resonator/polymoogresodemo1.mp3
Playing with tiny potentiometers and aligator clips instead of a switch ... Sound comes from the OB-8, and these is some reverb.
Mainly checking if everything works as intended ... for a *good* demo, lisen to Kenneth Elhardt's demo on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XUiJi5153Y

Website with PCB preview:
http://www.jhaible.de/resonator/resonator.html

Blank PCB will be 27.00 Euros + 6.00 Shipping, as usual.
(Available in a few week.)

JH.


thanks for posting so fast your, not good but excellent demo juergen
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So. One PCB for me please.
_________________
Homepage - http://www.czmok.de
My dIY - http://diy.czmok.de
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nerdware



Joined: Jul 11, 2009
Posts: 91
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One PCB for me too please.
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JoeMorris



Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ill have one PCB.
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davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 191
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject: Resonator Section of Polymoog ...
Subject description: Panel design
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Wow - another module design that I'll have to build. Put me in for one PCB ... and I only have 1U of space left!

I used the Will (and Bill) layout design from ModularSynthPanels and did a 2U version with small knobs and additional inputs and attenuators. I have three panel designs on my web site.

http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm

Dave

Last edited by davebr on Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Taking orders (by email!) now.

Polymoog Resonator Clone PCB Order form
================================

Pricing is EUR 27.00 per board
plus a single EUR 6.00 shipping flat charge for worldwide shipping,
regardless how many boards you are ordering and where you live.
It does *not* include any customs fees or tax that you may (or may not) have
to pay in your county.

What you get is a double-sided printed circuit board with component overlay,
approx. size 160mm x 100mmm.

You have to buy the electronic components for this, and build the device,
yourself. (Check the above website regularly for updates and building hints,
bill of matrials etc.)

If you want to place a pre-order, please send me an email (no PM, please).

and use the FOLLOWING FORM (fill in your data instead of [],
for instance: "2 Boards" instead of "[quantity] Boards")

===== Start of Email Order Form ===============

Email Subject line: Polymoog Resonator order: [quantity] boards

Email text:

I'm ordering [quantity] pieces of the Polymoog Resonator PCB
for EUR 27.00 per board + EUR 6.00 single shipping flat charge for any
number of boards.
I'm aware that I may have to pay additional amounts of customs and tax in my
country.

I'm also aware that I'm only buying blank PCBs that may help me building an
electonic module - I'm *not* buying a diy kit, not a "project" - just pieces
of FR4 with copper traces.
I know how to build electronic circuits and I am trained in electrical safety matters.
The seller of these PCBs will not be held responsible for any damage that results
from these PCBs, directly or indirectly.

My shipping adress is

[Your Name]
[Your street, number, city, ZIP code, in exactly the form
that is generally used in your country]
[your country]

My paypal adress is [your paypal adress].

I===== End of Email Order Form =========

Looking forward to hear fom you Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Boards are ordered from the factory.

I approached the "critical mass" of pre-orders and had the production started yesterday. There will be enough boards for everyone. But if you haven't sent a pre-order by email yet, please do. That will assure you to be part of the first wave of shipping when the boards are here, in a couple of weeks.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Juergen ,i would like to bundle an order when flanger is done to save on the shipping costs?

2 resonators
5 storm side flangers
1 solina chorus

as for the BBdelay later i take 5 pcbs
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elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Resonator Section of Polymoog ...
Subject description: Panel design
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davebr wrote:

I used the Will (and Bill) layout design from ModularSynthPanels and did a 2U version with small knobs and additional inputs and attenuators. I have three panel designs on my web site.

http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm

Dave



I tried to sign up for the ModularSynthPanels group (I used to be a member), but it looks like it's going to take a human on the other side to approve me, whenever that might be.

But I'm wondering if these Polymoog resonator panels are going to be available for purchase by other people. And I'm seeing some things that aren't of the best design or adding more than is needed. There should be a simple bypass switch as opposed to two knobs (one for wet/dry mix and one for resonator level). And the BN setting isn't really needed and is just one more position one needs to switch through. It's also not the kind of module that needs multiple inputs / mixer either. It's the kind of thing that processes a sound that's already mostly finished, as opposed to processing each osc exactly the same way. That's just a lot of unnecessary knob setting and cable use. And normally the two filter characteristics are put together (frequency and resonance) and then the gain comes after that. That's how the Polymoog resonator is organized. There just too much extra that's not needed in that panel design that just adds extra cost, complexity and extra custom circuitry needed.

And yet, the place where you might want to expand beyond the original Polymoog resonator design, is to have access to all 3 hi-pass, band-pass, and low-pass filters on 9 separate output jacks, in addition to the switched output that's already there. That way you could for example, use one lowpass and two bandpass filters for a patch.

-Ken Elhardt
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Resonator Section of Polymoog ...
Subject description: Panel design
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I'm terribly behind of what I wanted to do, with my dear littly baby girl in the house and all, and for some reason the Resonator PCBs will be ready before the Flanger PCBs, and so there is barely any documentation from my side yet.

Ken is right about the multiple inputs and the bypass switch, IMO. I would never build an FX box without a hard bypass switch!

I think the "BN" mode is very valuable, though. Not for synthesis experts like Ken, maybe, who have a stuctured way to form a certain sound. But for guys like me, who often just play with the potentiometers, without aiming for certain frequencies of Q factor numbers, the BN mode is really nice. Because, if you have a certain sound in BP mode, and you think it's too "heavy", you can switch to BN mode, get (almost) the same resonance peaks, but the whole sound "thinned out" somehow by the notches between the peaks.

About front panel designs: Is anybody working on a Schaeffer layout for sliders? it would be nice to have a template that works with commonly available slider pots. I have zero time to evaluate that myself: what sliders are good, how to mount them behind a front panel, etc. So if anybody wants to do the DIY community a favor, here's the opportunity to do some research and front panel design work.

I think these Moog slider knobs look beautiful, too! Hard to get something similar today, I guess?

Oh, and bringing out individual HP BP and LP outputs: That would need some extra buffer stages with gain, because of the unique structure of the filters in there. It has been said that these are just ordinary State Variable Filters, and that is certainly right, at least at the first glance. But there is a difference: The signal level within the filter stucture is distributed unevenly. Speaking of an individual filter: The LP output has a much higher Level than than the HP output. Why? The LP fuction needs the best SNR, and the HP function is most sensitive to slew rate distortion, which occurs at higher levels.
This may or may not be an anacronism, but I have taken care to preserve that design philosophy in all detail, to allow the exact same behaviour as the original, when using the same opamps - for better or worse. But that would mean extra amplification for the individual HP and BP functions, when brought out. (In the overall Resonator funtion, this is taken care of in the summing stage, so you have the same level in all modes.)

It's possible to use the PCB for an ordinary State Variable design instead, of course. It's just one resistor per filter that would have to be changed (along with using modern opamps, and with changing the summing resistor values). Then bringing out individual stages is no problem. But that's not an original Polymoog Resonator anymore then. Smile

JH.

elhardt wrote:
davebr wrote:

I used the Will (and Bill) layout design from ModularSynthPanels and did a 2U version with small knobs and additional inputs and attenuators. I have three panel designs on my web site.

http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm

Dave



I tried to sign up for the ModularSynthPanels group (I used to be a member), but it looks like it's going to take a human on the other side to approve me, whenever that might be.

But I'm wondering if these Polymoog resonator panels are going to be available for purchase by other people. And I'm seeing some things that aren't of the best design or adding more than is needed. There should be a simple bypass switch as opposed to two knobs (one for wet/dry mix and one for resonator level). And the BN setting isn't really needed and is just one more position one needs to switch through. It's also not the kind of module that needs multiple inputs / mixer either. It's the kind of thing that processes a sound that's already mostly finished, as opposed to processing each osc exactly the same way. That's just a lot of unnecessary knob setting and cable use. And normally the two filter characteristics are put together (frequency and resonance) and then the gain comes after that. That's how the Polymoog resonator is organized. There just too much extra that's not needed in that panel design that just adds extra cost, complexity and extra custom circuitry needed.

And yet, the place where you might want to expand beyond the original Polymoog resonator design, is to have access to all 3 hi-pass, band-pass, and low-pass filters on 9 separate output jacks, in addition to the switched output that's already there. That way you could for example, use one lowpass and two bandpass filters for a patch.

-Ken Elhardt

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:41 am    Post subject: Re: Resonator Section of Polymoog ...
Subject description: Panel design
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jhaible wrote:
I think these Moog slider knobs look beautiful, too! Hard to get something similar today, I guess?



technologytransplant sell those slidercaps on ebay,the where also used on the moog opus3 synth

Individulal outputs are indeed useless imo on this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290272133893&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3907.m38.l1313%26_nkw%3D290272133893%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1


moogOpusFullKnobset-MED.jpg
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 980
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Regarding a layout with faders, this is what someone on the Modular Panels yahoo group said regarding an MOTM panel with sliders versus rotary pots - interesting to hear any other feedback on this here:

After second thought, I don't think faders would not work very well
for this circuit (with an MOTM layout). I have a Polymoog and was
looking at the resonator section trying to figure out a way to make
those faders fit (vertically) within an MOTM panel and it's not good.
The fader layout on the Polymoog works well because the faders are all
in a horizontal row, and not very tall. If you try to make them fit
into an MOTM panel, you'd have a very wide panel with lots of blank
space. Or you could break the faders up into groups and make two rows,
but I don't think that looks very good. I suppose you could do
horizontal faders, but then that's not sticking to the "tribute
module" that I was hoping to achieve.
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davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 191
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Resonator Section of Polymoog ...
Subject description: Panel design
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elhardt wrote:
davebr wrote:

I used the Will (and Bill) layout design from ModularSynthPanels and did a 2U version with small knobs and additional inputs and attenuators. I have three panel designs on my web site.

http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm

Dave

But I'm wondering if these Polymoog resonator panels are going to be available for purchase by other people. And I'm seeing some things that aren't of the best design or adding more than is needed. There should be a simple bypass switch as opposed to two knobs (one for wet/dry mix and one for resonator level). And the BN setting isn't really needed and is just one more position one needs to switch through. It's also not the kind of module that needs multiple inputs / mixer either. It's the kind of thing that processes a sound that's already mostly finished, as opposed to processing each osc exactly the same way. That's just a lot of unnecessary knob setting and cable use. And normally the two filter characteristics are put together (frequency and resonance) and then the gain comes after that. That's how the Polymoog resonator is organized. There just too much extra that's not needed in that panel design that just adds extra cost, complexity and extra custom circuitry needed.

And yet, the place where you might want to expand beyond the original Polymoog resonator design, is to have access to all 3 hi-pass, band-pass, and low-pass filters on 9 separate output jacks, in addition to the switched output that's already there. That way you could for example, use one lowpass and two bandpass filters for a patch.

-Ken Elhardt

Ah - the beauty of DIY. Each can build a panel to suit their needs. This would take 9 additional op amp buffers. It's a lot of additional circuitry but it will fit on a 2U panel.

Dave

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Resonator Section of Polymoog ...
Subject description: Panel design
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Interesting!
Thanks for the pointer - seems to be a good source for replacement parts!
But there are no sliders to match, are there?
I mean, would these knobs fit on any Alps or Bourns or whatever sliders are currently available?

JH.

TekniK wrote:
jhaible wrote:
I think these Moog slider knobs look beautiful, too! Hard to get something similar today, I guess?



technologytransplant sell those slidercaps on ebay,the where also used on the moog opus3 synth

Individulal outputs are indeed useless imo on this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290272133893&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3907.m38.l1313%26_nkw%3D290272133893%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Resonator Section of Polymoog ...
Subject description: Panel design
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jhaible wrote:
Interesting!
Thanks for the pointer - seems to be a good source for replacement parts!
But there are no sliders to match, are there?
I mean, would these knobs fit on any Alps or Bourns or whatever sliders are currently available?



i Have no idea Juergen,u will need to buy a sample to test that.

Btw u don't need to buy the offered kit,u can mail the guy asking for specific part and buy them off-ebay
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KEYKEYEYEKIT



Joined: Sep 08, 2009
Posts: 24
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would love 3 of these.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

KEYKEYEYEKIT wrote:
I would love 3 of these.


Please send order form by email!

Thanks,

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Schematics online:
http://www.jhaible.de/resonator/resonator.html

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jaidee



Joined: Oct 28, 2007
Posts: 43
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

magman wrote:
Here's a page on the RS UK site:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=retrieveTfg&binCount=10&Ne=4294957561&Ntt=slider+dual&Ntk=I18NAll&Nr=AND%28avl%3auk%2csearchDiscon_uk%3aN%29&Ntx=mode%2bmatchallpartial&N=4294955100&Nty=1

Looking at the manufacturers application note (from a link on the RS site), anything with a part number of WAxAn.... will be a dual pot.

Take your pick of slider length value or LIN/LOG, etc.

Regards

Magman



Unfortunately, these appear to be discontinued.

Anyone got any other leads on a 10K lin dual slide pot which might be compatible with the technologytransplant slider caps??
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