electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Jez Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Resonator Section of Polymoog ...
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites
Page 4 of 6 [129 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Interested?
Interested
95%
 95%  [ 43 ]
Not intersted
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 45

Author Message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bill Of Materials is online:

http://www.jhaible.de/resonator/resonator_bom.pdf

http://www.jhaible.de/resonator/resonator.html

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:32 pm    Post subject: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Panel Designs
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My PCBs have been shipped, I've finished and ordered my Living VCO panel, so it's time to be thinking about finalizing my resonator panel. I've narrowed my thoughts down to three designs that are on my web page.

I've add modifications for a single Mix control replacing the individual resonance and dry controls, and three inputs and attenuators.

I favor a slightly non-traditional design where each of the three resonators sections is slightly offset forming a low, mid, and high visual (right image).

http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

middle one looks cool dave
_________________
problemchild
melbourne australia
http://cycleofproblems.blogspot.com/
http://www.last.fm/user/prblmchild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
/mr



Joined: Aug 05, 2007
Posts: 223
Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:15 am    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Panel Designs
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davebr wrote:
I favor a slightly non-traditional design where each of the three resonators sections is slightly offset forming a low, mid, and high visual (right image).
http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm

Interesting twist.
I'd definitely choose the right one before the cluttered middle one. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Panel Designs
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

/mr wrote:
davebr wrote:
I favor a slightly non-traditional design where each of the three resonators sections is slightly offset forming a low, mid, and high visual (right image).
http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm

Interesting twist.
I'd definitely choose the right one before the cluttered middle one. Smile


It took me a bit to figure out that the middle picture was wrong. Frontpage didn't catch the fact that I had replaced the photo. I've fixed the picture so it matches the FrontPanelDesigner file. However, I changed to new panel design based on playing with a functional prototype.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Working Prototype
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I finished the PCB and got my protoytpe running - pretty nice. I found that the gain controls can really overdrive and clip. Headroom is also reduced a bit since the resonator cells are referenced to +5 volts.

I thought about going back to the separate controls for Dry and Resonator levels except the Resonator level control is after the clipping. You can avoid clipping by adjusting the individual gain controls or reducing the input level. One option is to move the Resonator level to the input of the resonator cells.

I decided to add three inputs and individual attenuators, add a Level control on the input to the resonator cells, add a Mix control, and add a clipping indicator on the resonator output. It's a bit more hand wiring than I want to do so I've designed a small add-on PCB.

This design now has 15 controls so I've arranged in 3 rows by 5 columns. I've moved all my previous panel designs to a separate page for reference.

I added more information and photos to my page including waveform images. Now to go play some more ...
http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Working Prototype
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davebr wrote:
One option is to move the Resonator level to the input of the resonator cells.


The individual Gain potentiometes for each filter band are at the filter inputs already.

Having control over post-filter gain (i.e a resonator level potentiometer, like the original), is a good idea, IMO. If you notice that the balance of the 3 filters is just right, but the oveall level is too low, you can increase the level without touching the 3 individual filter gains that way. The gain reserve that's built into the final amp for that purpose is a good thing - but of course it allows overdrive, and will overdrive if you omit that final gian control and replace it with a wet/dry mix pot.

If you are determined to have a wet/dry mix potentiometer instead, simply reduce the gain of the output amp: make R21 smaller.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 980
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Working Prototype
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Having control over post-filter gain (i.e a resonator level potentiometer, like the original), is a good idea, IMO.


Would this best be accomplished with an external buffer added after the output of the circuit or by adding a pot somewhere around U3 on the resonator circuit itself? I'm not interested in a wet/dry mix, justin a post-filter gain control.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Working Prototype
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
jhaible wrote:
Having control over post-filter gain (i.e a resonator level potentiometer, like the original), is a good idea, IMO.


Would this best be accomplished with an external buffer added after the output of the circuit or by adding a pot somewhere around U3 on the resonator circuit itself? I'm not interested in a wet/dry mix, justin a post-filter gain control.


What I have described is the original (and the unchanged PCB), without a wet/dry mix. Saying, I recommend to build it just as it is.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 980
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Working Prototype
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, the RESON connector on the PCB. Sorry, missed that somehow.

Thanks!

jhaible wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
jhaible wrote:
Having control over post-filter gain (i.e a resonator level potentiometer, like the original), is a good idea, IMO.


Would this best be accomplished with an external buffer added after the output of the circuit or by adding a pot somewhere around U3 on the resonator circuit itself? I'm not interested in a wet/dry mix, justin a post-filter gain control.


What I have described is the original (and the unchanged PCB), without a wet/dry mix. Saying, I recommend to build it just as it is.

JH.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Working Prototype
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
What I have described is the original (and the unchanged PCB), without a wet/dry mix. Saying, I recommend to build it just as it is.
JH.

It must be a bit irritating to do such great design work and then have everyone talk about what they wished it had or why did you do this.

I do want to thank you for your great designs and the effort and energy it takes to provide this for the synth community. I just like to embrace the DIY nature of the projects. Besides, if I don't like it, I can always change it. That's what's so much fun about this hobby. Keep up the great designs.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Working Prototype
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davebr wrote:
Quote:
What I have described is the original (and the unchanged PCB), without a wet/dry mix. Saying, I recommend to build it just as it is.
JH.

It must be a bit irritating to do such great design work and then have everyone talk about what they wished it had or why did you do this.

I do want to thank you for your great designs and the effort and energy it takes to provide this for the synth community. I just like to embrace the DIY nature of the projects. Besides, if I don't like it, I can always change it. That's what's so much fun about this hobby. Keep up the great designs.

Dave


Dave,

I hope you didn't get a wrong impression: I totally encourage any kind of modification / expansion to the PCBs I provide. Remember, I came from all-veroboard stuff and used to only publish schematics, not even clean drawings. And even today, some wish my documentation would be more detailed than it is.

So what I wrote was just a direct answer to a specific question - pointing out that Moog's original design already has the feature in question (post filter level pots) - but no wet/dry mix of course.

For the wet/dry mix version, I recommend decreasing that feedback resistor in the output stage - or wire a potentiometer in parallel to that resistor for a Master volume control.

JH

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Working Prototype
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Dave,

I hope you didn't get a wrong impression: I totally encourage any kind of modification / expansion to the PCBs I provide. Remember, I came from all-veroboard stuff and used to only publish schematics, not even clean drawings. And even today, some wish my documentation would be more detailed than it is.

JH


No misunderstanding at all. And yes, I used to look at those schematics with the hand drawn funny shaped "1"s - definitely not American. Too complex for me to want to hand wire, and too much work to lay out a PCB.

I just wanted you to know we all appreciate the work you put into this and the availability of PCBs. The breadboard area on this design is a nice addition.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Working Prototype
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davebr wrote:
I thought about going back to the separate controls for Dry and Resonator levels except the Resonator level control is after the clipping. You can avoid clipping by adjusting the individual gain controls or reducing the input level. One option is to move the Resonator level to the input of the resonator cells. I decided to add three inputs and individual attenuators, add a Level control on the input to the resonator cells, add a Mix control, and add a clipping indicator on the resonator output.
Dave


I've played with this prototype the last two evenings. I am going to reverse myself and agree with Jurgen. The gain controls can be used quite nicely in most cases to control clipping. With input attenuators I can also use those to reduce the signal going to the resonator cells.

The issue I found is that the resonator output (e.g. wet) had a different tonal makeup and the relative loudness compared to the input (e.g. dry). Some resonator waveforms are not symmetric about their virtual ground (e.g. 5 volts) so you can get positive clipping without much negative waveform at all, and others are quite symmetrical. In other words, the pk-pk voltage and relative "loudness" can vary quite a bit which changes the balance in a wet-dry Mix knob.

I think it would be easier to control the overall balance by just having separate wet and dry levels as designed. However, I am definitely adding a clipping indicator. Since the output of the resonator is centered around 5 volts, I think I may just use a pair of comparators to form a window detect at something a bit larger than 10 volts pk-pk, say +12.5 volts and -2.5 volts (centered about +5 volts) to drive the clipping indicator.

I also think I will boost the gain of the dry mixer (e.g. R16) so I can get unity gain with the resonance level at 0.

You just have to play with the prototype enough to get a good feel for it's characteristics. I finally had to make a foamcore panel and mount the controls to it to really test drive it.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuipb



Joined: Oct 06, 2009
Posts: 18
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, I am a new member and know nothing about DIY but I would really like to have 1 (or maybe 2 separate units or 2 in the same box for stereo) of this resonator.
Jurgen suggested i should contact this forum to see if someone could be interested to build 1 (or 2) for me. So if anyone feels like building it and sell it to me I would be interested to know their price. I would prefer the closest to the original MOOG/Elhardt built. I would also prefer someone located in Europe as I am in France. So please contact me if interested !

Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
morbank



Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Mode Switch?
Subject description: Mode Switch?
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello to all,

Can anyone here tell me what type of 4 way switch I'll need for the mode selector?
Thanks, Clay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Mode Switch?
Subject description: Mode Switch?
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

morbank wrote:
Can anyone here tell me what type of 4 way switch I'll need for the mode selector?
Thanks, Clay


1 pole 4 position. I used a multi-position rotary switch where you move a ring to limit the rotation to 4 positions. The Mouser part number is on my site. http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm
Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
morbank



Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Mode Switch?
Subject description: Mode Switch?
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
1 pole 4 position. I used a multi-position rotary switch where you move a ring to limit the rotation to 4 positions. The Mouser part number is on my site. http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm
Dave


Thanks Dave! I had been checking your progress but I somehow missed the section where you gave the info for the pots.
-Clay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: Completed module
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I finished building my module today. The clipping indicator works great. I've updated the photos and information on my site.
http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/resonator/polyres.htm

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
morbank



Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Troubleshooting Help
Subject description: Troubleshooting Help
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello to All,
So I've got my resonator assembled and everything seems to be working well with the exception of both of the Mid and Low Frequency and Emphasis controls. The gain pots appear to be working as they should. However, the Low frequency pot doesn't seem to effect the audio at all and turning the pot fully clockwise results in the audio cutting out abruptly with a low thunk sound. The pot for the Mid Frequency has even more issues as turning the pot causes the audio to abruptly cut in and out at random. It too has the same thunk sound when turning the pot fully clockwise. The Emphasis pots for both the Mid and Low Frequencies have very little if any effect as well.

Can anyone here point me to what I might have done wrong or what I might try to make things right?
Sincerely, Clay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Troubleshooting Help
Subject description: Troubleshooting Help
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

morbank wrote:
Hello to All,
So I've got my resonator assembled and everything seems to be working well with the exception of both of the Mid and Low Frequency and Emphasis controls. The gain pots appear to be working as they should. However, the Low frequency pot doesn't seem to effect the audio at all and turning the pot fully clockwise results in the audio cutting out abruptly with a low thunk sound. The pot for the Mid Frequency has even more issues as turning the pot causes the audio to abruptly cut in and out at random. It too has the same thunk sound when turning the pot fully clockwise. The Emphasis pots for both the Mid and Low Frequencies have very little if any effect as well.

Can anyone here point me to what I might have done wrong or what I might try to make things right?
Sincerely, Clay


The 3 bands are identical circuits, only with different capacitors. So all you have to do is compare the two bad ones against the 3rd, good one.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
adambee7



Joined: Apr 04, 2009
Posts: 420
Location: united kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I thnk the modifications dave has done are going to be implemened into mine. Thanks Dave. What does the mod circuit look like underneath. I've seen top side but not bottom side on the board. Got a rough idea just want to be sure i get it right. Really nice panel design to.

adam

Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: modifications
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

adambee7 wrote:
I think the modifications dave has done are going to be implemened into mine. Thanks Dave. What does the mod circuit look like underneath. I've seen top side but not bottom side on the board. Got a rough idea just want to be sure i get it right.
adam
Very Happy Very Happy

I thought about taking a photo but didn't. I added tracings to the image that shows the wiring. I think it is correct (but you should re-check it).

I flat the leads to the PCB on the back and route the leads orthogonally to the appropriate pad. I then solder the wire to each of the pads it crosses. These are shown in red.

I added two components on the back. These are shown in white.

I then connect up the various sections with wire. Wires are shown in yellow.

The two resistors for the comparator on the front are bent so their leads are above the PCB and do not touch any pads as they wrap around the IC.

Note that there is a decoupling capacitor below the resistor at the top of the op-amp.

I have a larger image on my site.
Dave

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adambee7



Joined: Apr 04, 2009
Posts: 420
Location: united kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice one Dave. I do appreciate it. Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davebr



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 181
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Polymoog Resonator
Subject description: modifications
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davebr wrote:
adambee7 wrote:
I think the modifications dave has done are going to be implemened into mine. Thanks Dave. What does the mod circuit look like underneath. I've seen top side but not bottom side on the board. Got a rough idea just want to be sure i get it right.
adam
Very Happy Very Happy

I thought about taking a photo but didn't. I added tracings to the image that shows the wiring. I think it is correct (but you should re-check it).

I have a larger image on my site.
Dave



Oops! The schematics are correct but when I created that wiring diagram I connected ground to pin 4 of the LM393 comparator instead of -15V. I updated the picture so it is now correct.

Dave
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites
Page 4 of 6 [129 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use