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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
CMOS triple resonant VCF
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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject:  CMOS triple resonant VCF
Subject description: audio/video demos and PCB now available
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My design is loosely based on the Korg Resonators PS3100/3300. While they do share the same core filter design mine is very different. It is made using CMOS chips, has additional voltage control over resonance, inverted and non inverted outputs and can be overdriven for added distortion. It can self-oscillate as well.

The board is setup to run in euro-rack systems, of course it is not limited to this. It can operate on different voltages just fine. 9-18v all with pleasing results.


components used:
Four 4007
One 4069
37 resistors
19 caps
4 diodes
5 trim pots

You can find audio and visual documentation on my youtube, flickr and myspace pages. The pcb can be purchased on my etsy site.

http://www.myspace.com/synthmonger
http://www.youtube.com/synthmonger
http://synthmonger.etsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/synthmonger/

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Last edited by synthmonger on Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:13 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Mikmo



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like that sound. Smile
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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mikmo wrote:
I like that sound. Smile


Thanks, but that doesn't qualify as a guess! Smile Smile
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RF



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've not had all that much experience with different filters - but it sounds most like my CGS Steiner-Parker Synthacon.
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slacker



Joined: Nov 18, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That would be my guess, but only because I think you mentioned something about it in another thread.
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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slacker wrote:
That would be my guess, but only because I think you mentioned something about it in another thread.


Nah it's not a CMOS synthacon. I didn't include it on the list because I just thought of it yesterday and thought "Oh I love this filter, I gotta cmos-o-fie it!"

Kinda sounds like 3 filters in parrallel...
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FYI, there was a vocoder design completely based on cmos chips published in ETI magazine back in the late 70's. I once had the magazine this design was in, but have since lost it. I'm curious to know if this design here would have been similar? Your circuit has a nice "phasey" sweep. Very Happy
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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
FYI, there was a vocoder design completely based on cmos chips published in ETI magazine back in the late 70's. I once had the magazine this design was in, but have since lost it. I'm curious to know if this design here would have been similar? Your circuit has a nice "phasey" sweep. Very Happy


Oh no way! I gotta find the ETI article. I'm very interested in building a CMOS vocoder.

But no it wasn't from that article. My design is based off the Korg 3100/3300 resonators. I swapped op-amps for 4069 gates as linear amps and vactrols for 4007s.

I need to breadboard the resonator using the original design and compare the two side by side. I've built one before and I don't think my cmos version has as much "oomff" as the Korg version. I used all the ins and outs so there are a few additions to mine, like inverted and non inverted outputs, drive control, and maybe a master cv resonance control.

Schematic this week!
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synthmonger



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got the extra "oomf" and worked out a pretty cool master resonance control. In the process of getting the VC resonance I found a VC distortion that gives a neat pulsey and syncy kinda sound.

Time to start working on the schematic and pcb!

Last edited by synthmonger on Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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scriptstyle



Joined: Jan 22, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is very cool can't wait to see the schematic!
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I found an ETI vocoder article from 1980 on CAG's site, though it only uses some CMOS chips not all. Is this the same one v-un-v?
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I drew the schematic out to aid me in developing the pcb. Sorry my handwriting is terrible, that's what 8 years of visual art schooling will do to ya!

I will have a super clean schematic laid out in eagle after I finish the pcb.


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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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loss1234



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok

trying to read this schematic (very excited)

so there are just 2 chips total?

wow...now you just need to upload one of these for your wasp-esque filter and your guitar synth!

love your circuits! even when they are messy

thanks

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http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
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Last edited by loss1234 on Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

also

on the chip (4007?) that is feeding the A and B fake vactrols, i notcied that pin numbers are 10/6, and 13/8 (And the chip is labeled 3/4)

so does this mean that vactrol A gets a circuit like this and Vactrol B gets one as well? or does it just mean, use whichever set of pins you like?

that is a bit vague


also on the top 4007 inverter (resonance) i can see 13, 5?? (and 14, 7 for power) which pin number is input?

also...you state that this takes 4 4007 chips....i cant figure out why...or where...it looks like the top transistor (for resonance) would be a separate chip but where else are the 4007's split up?


other than pin numbers and whether or not to repeat the bottom 4007 this is all pretty clear


thanks

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http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
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Last edited by loss1234 on Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

let me ask...

could this be turned into a regular resonant Low pass filter by simply replacing the vactrols with a pot?

the reason i ask is i am trying to figure out if this is the result of your CMOS filter experiments you were doing a while back or if this is something different.
can you post a theory of operation?

thanks

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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loss1234 wrote:
ok

trying to read this schematic (very excited)

so there are just 2 chips total?

wow...now you just need to upload one of these for your wasp-esque filter and your guitar synth!

love your circuits! even when they are messy

thanks


Five chips total. I left one out on accident. There is one 4069 that take care of the audio signal path and four 4007s; one for each frequency control and one for the master resonance.

The pins labeled 10, 6 and 13, 8 is part of a 4007 wired as an inverter. You have to connect those pins together in order for it to act as one. The IC is labeled as 3,4 should also have 5 which according to the key are supposed to be 4007s.

You could find another method of controlling them, but I felt this way to be the best way possible. Originally I tried using the NMOS but no such luck at all. Without the inverter in the front the pots will act backwards.

The input pin for the 4007 at top is pin 6. Sorry! Thought I covered everything...

The things that look like transistors are PMOS gates from the 4007. I use different symbols to make things easier to read. There are a few unused pins on every 4007 so just leave them hanging. Don't ground them or they'll screw everything up.
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also, don't forget decoupling caps for every chip! The diodes on the 4069 pin one can be omitted if you just want to use it in your lunetta.
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

let me ask

is there an advantage to making it with the 4007 instead of just using a few JEFTS and some inverters?

or does it have to be the MOS transistor type?

thanks for this great circuit!!

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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I haven't tested it with JFETS but I'm sure it would work. Using different inverters and JFETS would take up more space though. The range of the MOS trannies are huge and probably larger than a JFET.
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slacker



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That sounds really cool. I'm attempting to build a CMOS based analogue synth at the minute as opposed to a lunetta so I might try this out. At the minute I've got a filter on the breadboard that's a modified version of the MXR envelope filter, might be cool having this as well for a different sound.

One question if you don't mind, what does it mean where it says "Repeat for other stages"? Does it have more than one stage in parallel or something, I'm not familiar with the original, guess I need to go find the schematics.
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah the stages should be in parrallel with 3 stages total. If you nix the master CV resonance control you can put them in series or have seperate outputs. If you look up the original schematic you should look at foniks resonators for a cleaner layout.
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The other VCF's im working on are a wasp, ms-20, steiner and 4-pole vcf. I'll keep an eye out for your mxr one.
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slacker



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cheers, I'll check out Fonik's schematics.

I've just got a few things to sort out then I'll post a schematic for the modded MXR filter. It's similar to the Wasp but it uses 4066 gates as voltage controlled resistors instead of the OTAs and originally it's only a Low Pass. Basically I've just tapped the stages to get high pass and band pass as well and added the distortion section from Juergen Haible's version of the Wasp.

Sounds pretty good but it wont quite self oscillate.
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slacker wrote:
Cheers, I'll check out Fonik's schematics.

I've just got a few things to sort out then I'll post a schematic for the modded MXR filter. It's similar to the Wasp but it uses 4066 gates as voltage controlled resistors instead of the OTAs and originally it's only a Low Pass. Basically I've just tapped the stages to get high pass and band pass as well and added the distortion section from Juergen Haible's version of the Wasp.

Sounds pretty good but it wont quite self oscillate.


Are you clocking the 4066 with a high frequency vco? Thats what I used originally in my first wasp design, but the bleedthrough was too nagging. Though I was able to get a cool sync function this way. For control modules and VCO's they work okay. I do use them for my other 40106 vco.
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