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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
the absolute beginners thread
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi again! Nice tunes!

Another query: Just wondering what size resistors you are using on your LED's? I've just gone with 10K. I guess the higher the resistance, the dimmer the LED's...

Thanks
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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Around 1k would be more usual, but if 10k works you'd be using less current.
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ah well that explains something to me! I just checked my 4040 LED's and it appears I had a couple of 1K resistors in there with the 10K ones. I was wondering why some of the LED's were burning brighter than others! Laughing

Might go with the 1K's I think... or try something in between. But I guess there's not any major power saving benefits here between a 1K and a 4.7K for example....
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
But I guess there's not any major power saving benefits here between a 1K and a 4.7K for example....


Nah, just a factor of 22 or so ... not overall of course, but for every single LED it would be.

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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Another query: Just wondering what size resistors you are using on your LED's? I've just gone with 10K. I guess the higher the resistance, the dimmer the LED's...


Yeah I used 1k's on all the leds, I like m nice and bright. I did use diffused leds wich spread the light more evenly. When I dim the lights and switch it on my room looks like a 60's disco Very Happy . I think I'll need a more beafy powersupply then the arduino though, a lot more leds planned for this one.

The sun has been much too nice to do any work on the board but hopefully I find some time over the weekend and finally start on the mixer.

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One thing / set of things to keep majorly in mind about the LEDs is what TYPE they are! Surprised

I myself for at least the last year, use ONLY super brights. They're the ones that will put out their full intensity with 2 mA of current. They're also a little more expensive than the standard LEDs, having been around for 30+ years that require 20-30 mA of current.

So, for a set of ideas, if you're Lunetta machine (and your LEDs) is running off of:

+5V then for 2 mA use a 2,700R resistor. (1.85 mA)
+5V then for 20 mA use a 270R resistor. (18.5 mA)

+9V then for 2 mA use a 4,700R resistor. (1.91 mA)
+9V then for 20 mA use a 470R resistor. (19.1 mA)

+12V then for 2 mA use a 6,200R resistor. (1.94 mA)
+12V then for 20 mA use a 620R resistor. (19.4 mA)

+15V then for 2 mA use a 7,500R resistor. (2 mA)
+15V then for 20 mA use a 750R resistor. (20 mA)

Now - your output signals are rarely ever going to be right against the power rails ... (the exact same voltage as your power supplies) ... and the 'standards' appear to be +5V, +/-5V, +10V or +/-10V for audio and CVs. In the Lunetta world of course, the (cough cough) 'standard' will more often than not, be what's coming out of your CMOS. Wink And that, will depend on what you're powering it with - minus the small percentage of headroom from the CMOS chip itself. Wink The above values though are a good frame of reference for powering your LEDs and the sizes of resistors to use, to keep them within their limits.

I myself - running +/-15V for everything, use a 10K resistor for each of my LEDs (of which I have a LOT. Laughing Well over 100 at the moment.) The 10K resistor will send my super bright LED, a maximum of 1.5 mA, and they're more'n bright enough for me. Very Happy
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Mikmo



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you power your Arduino from a PC USB port it can deliver a max of 500 mA minus what the board is using itself. But most USB ports do not guarantee 500mA.

If you power your Arduino with an external powersupply then that supply or the voltage regulator on the Arduino is the limit. Without heatsinking the Arduino voltage regulator is said to be able to handle 300 - 400 mA, with heatsinking more.

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tjookum



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that again is a great piece of info there rich! I just bought a 100bag of 1k resistors so I guess I'll be using those.

Quote:
If you power your Arduino from a PC USB port it can deliver a max of 500 mA minus what the board is using itself. But most USB ports do not guarantee 500mA.


thanks for that mikmo. The arduino board is just there because I have one and it works good for testing. Since the board is expanding and the op-amp section is going to be easier with bipolar supply I'd better do it right and build/buy a +/- 12v and +5v secure power supply. Im very keen on keeping it safe because Im very clumsy and dont want to get a shock from touching the board. What kind of design would you suggest?

The full on summer has finally arrived here in Holland and as every year the heat just shuts down my body and mind so Im taking a break from building for now. I did manage to solder a prototype for a new mini bananajack I was thinking of. Ive always been a fan of stackable bananajacks but they are way to expensive for my simple project, so I removed the plastic from a header pin and soldered some wire to it. Works really nice and they have a good fit with the male-male jumpers.


HPIM1645.JPG
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mini bananajacks anyone?
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HPIM1645.JPG



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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stackable male headerpins. Good idea! Some of my modules have triple outputs and still I want more.

some remarks: I've used three versions of female in/outs on my Lunetta.

1: those that come on a strip that can be cut to size, looking like yours.However, when these were cut and plastic fractured sometimes, the inside metal bit was a fork like pinching system that needs the plastic support.

These were rather expensive (at the local store) so I started using:

2: cut up IC sockets that I have. I used the big ones for IC's I'm not using anyway (for processors and such).

3: Old computer flatcable connectors (look the same as your females, but are a double row). Nice and cheap (made from free cables that is), and a bit of work I happen to enjoy.
When the flatcable is removed the connectors have these small fork like little pinchers that pierce through the flatcable to make a solderless connection. These are a bit too close for circuitboard spacing, so I had to bend them a bit. Also, they are a bit short, so barely pass through the PCB. But so far I've managed to get good solderjoints. I think the double row looks better than two single soldered together.

Those stackable cable headerbits you have used actually look like the pins you get when you break away too much plastic when cutting up machined IC sockets. Now I cut these up a pin larger then I want, because they break easily.
I've actually kept the loose pins I got this way, I sorta felt those could come in handy for some purpose Very Happy .
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
1: those that come on a strip that can be cut to size, looking like yours.However, when these were cut and plastic fractured sometimes, the inside metal bit was a fork like pinching system that needs the plastic support.

Yeah, those are the ones I use for most of the headers on the board, they are cheaper then the machined ones but you sacrifice one pin with every cut.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-82942516561161_2112_3164088
these are the ones you need, they contain a seperate socket for every pin inside a plastic casing. Ive seen them at 2 dollar for 40 pins, with some wire that makes 3 dollar for 20 jumpers!

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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:57 am    Post subject:
Subject description: improvising parts
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Some of my improvised female in/out's.

Top row L-R :

Cut IC sockets , Flatcable connector , cut up LED display socket (used as a " LED bank")

Below: 4017-4051 Melody Generator module ( stacked to fit my plug-in module concept)


improvising_inputs.JPG
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks electri-fire, I have some flatcable lying around so ill get around to using it. I really like your layered design for the melodygen, so nice and clean. Does it plug straight in the board or do you have some headers for it?


2 new samples today, the patches are getting more and more interesting with every module I add.

29-06-2010 noisemanifest by Tropical Benny
This one uses all 4 exor gates on my newly added 4030 to generate a complex data stream wich is fed into the melodygen and the data on the 4015 shift register. The outputs of the 4015 are used to drive the ABC on the melodygen. Theory is nice, but noise is better. Very Happy


29-06-2010 starvation army by Tropical Benny
Since Im still using my breadboard to divide the power I always try a starvepot at the end of a "session", It's a cheap trick with great sonic potential. This made me think about rerouting the powersupply to header pins for all the chips wich can be easily done....hmm.

If the weather allows me tomorrow I'll get that damn mixer done Smile .

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RF



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tjookum - that's some.... noise Smile

Smile

Keep on Bro!

bruce

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tjookum



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Although the building has ground to a halt I just can't stop patching and "playing" this incredible machine! Sometimes I forget the time and I just get sucked in, then when I finally switch it off I need a few minutes to come back down to earth Smile .

I've got a new video up:


and another track:
30-06-2010 autostarve by Tropical Benny
This one was really weird, It's basically the same patch as noisemanifest but when I kept starving it it started to spit out this strange (and very unpredictable) "melody". There are a lot of hidden gems to be found with starvepots.

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's great General Tjookum! Looks and sounds like a space craft in the dark. I'm seriously thinking about putting a socket and switch on each of my panels for power starvation. It seems like an option which cannot be overlooked. I know what you mean about coming down to earth. I've had my lunetta bleeping all day. I only just turned it off after 15 hours of fun so I could listen to your video sound.

There's something good about these mini lunetta builds with the exposed board and pin sockets. Appears to have branched into a category of its own. Makes this hobby/obsession more affordable! However, I'm going for a modular panel approach. Been designing the look of my machine all day! It's about all I do with my life now!

Keep up the grand work!
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Time for another update!

The sun has been pretty relentless here and couldn't get anything done the last 2 weeks. Although I couldn't do any soldering I did design my first ever module to have the center space on my board. I posted a question over at the deathlehem forum about a sequencer where you can plug in any sound and have it sequenced. With great help from Rfeng and mr Rykhaard it started to take shape very quickly and my first lunetta design was done before I knew it.

Ive called it the Gating Patchable Sequencer(GPS) and it uses just 2 IC's, the 4017 and the 4066. The 4017 is set up just like a baby8 and uses an external clock and/or reset signal, the 8 steps get routed to some led's and a 8x4 header patchbay with diodes to prevent feedback. The 4066 takes it's 4 control signals from a 4x8 patchbay to switch(gate) the 4 inputs and outputs. It's all very basic stuff and really idiotproof to build but with a lot of rythmic potential with a total of 32 possibility's and you can use anything as a sound input(circuit bend stuff, gates, oscilators) and have it sequenced on the output. It is fully functional but Im having some grounding issues in the patchbays so the schematic will be altered to a final version.

pictures!


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copperside, getting more and more complex with every module
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HPIM1686.JPG
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topside, up/down, left to right: Pulldownresistors, LED's, 4017 output bay 8x4, sound input 1x4, control input 4x8, sound output 1x4
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GPS 1.0.png
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tested and works, but still have groundingissues so wait for 2.0
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Ajax



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sound! too much coffee
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, technically it doesn't make any sound at all, it just switches sounds on and of based on an 8 step sequence.

So the results all depend on what you put in and how you make patches with the matrix.


In this video I used several osc. with XOR gates to make the clock very irregular, so the steps always trigger differently. I then used a melodygen and patches it to 3 different gates with different oscilators. All 8 steps are used and you get to choose wich gate goes to the output with the matrix. This is just one of endless possible patches, but hopefully it gives a general idea as to how it functions.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: Thread title change Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey, tjookum

Given the speed of your progress and the vast amount of cool stuff you post you can hardly be called an absolute beginner anymore. As threads progress, at times I´ve felt the urge to change the title, but I don´t think it´s possible.

Could this be made possible by the forum moderators?
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tjookum! THAT, is simply AMAZING! Surprised salut Major pats on the back for THAT one! And that is a great example of 'chopping' the audio, with switches instead of going with VCAs! That works absutively phenomenally! Surprised

Wow! I am impressed!
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Hey, tjookum

Given the speed of your progress and the vast amount of cool stuff you post you can hardly be called an absolute beginner anymore. As threads progress, at times I´ve felt the urge to change the title, but I don´t think it´s possible.

Could this be made possible by the forum moderators?


Thanks! If you use the edit function on the first post of a thread you can alter the subject and thus the threadtitle. But it has been rather nice to have a place to post all my progress, and I don't think my journey into lunettaland is ending anytime soon Very Happy . Maybe Ill open a new topic(the little less then absolute beginners thread?) when this board is finished(only space left for 1 big module or a couple more gates, open for suggestions!)



Quote:
Tjookum! THAT, is simply AMAZING! Surprised salut Major pats on the back for THAT one! And that is a great example of 'chopping' the audio, with switches instead of going with VCAs! That works absutively phenomenally! Surprised

Wow! I am impressed!


I couldn't have done it without the help you and others gave me. To be honoust Im kind of impressed myself Rolling Eyes . I've always wanted to create my own instrument for my own music(electronics/noise) and I can't be happier with all the help I have been getting here to make this dream come through. I have zero background in electronics and would never have thought I could make stuff like this 6 months ago, so a BIG thanks to all the people here at EM.

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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sad this forum is getting very quiet....


I have redrawn the entire schematic, and it's fully tested and working now.

Feel free to ask questions.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

YES it has gone quiet! I was beginning to wonder if anyone would post here again. Perhaps people have moved on to other things, like acoustic guitar! Laughing

Thanks for the update anyway! I shall be doing some 4017 sequency stuff, but at the moment I've got a long list of other modules waiting to be assembled onto boards.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rest assured that I for one am watching your achievements with a certain sense of vicarious joy!
I say vicarious as I don't have much free time lately, or I'd be doing some CMOS R&D myself.
BTW, I love your vids tjookum. I reckon they look like a band of alien musicians doing a live gig from about the 30th row back. Brilliant.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That looks like a fun module to make, tjookum Very Happy ! I'll keep it on my "Things to Do When I'm Done Changing Diapers" list Laughing .

Yes, it has been quiet here the past few days...I've been slowly but surely connecting my poor man's modules together during baby's naps. As it is, it's a lunetta I call "BlobbLor" since it's sort of a blob of wires, copper and bolts. Hopefully the night owl lunetta construction will allow me to post sounds in the near future.
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