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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
X-4046 VCO Page is Up
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Thomas_Henry



Joined: Jul 24, 2009
Posts: 129
Location: N. Mankato, MN

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

widdly wrote:
Would switching a larger capacitor in parallel with C3 allow for an LFO mode?

Yes, but that is a very sensitive part of the circuit. (The cap is already being tapped by two buffers). I think it might screw up the VCO tuning, so I'd advise against it. The VCO does in fact go subsonic anyway.

Quote:
If I left out the sine circuit, am I correct to assume that the Pulse output circuit could be connected to the saw output instead?


That would work. But if you listen to Scott's first recording on his Web site, I don't think you'll want to leave out the sine. I thought it was best part of his sample!

Quote:
Would a 1M pot work for the Rampoid skew control (R53)?


Yes. Keep the leads direct and to the point, though, since that represents a greater impedance.

Thomas Henry
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thomas_Henry wrote:
Heya, Rykhaard,

Sure, go ahead and post your artwork here. That would be a real time-saving aid for the rest of the gang. Keep Scott posted as well; he'd probably want to include links to it in his write-up.

And thanks!

Thomas Henry


:o Otay! :salut: Thank you greatly Thomas and again, as well as for the VCO itself! Just from listening to Scott's audio from it, I fully agree with others that this guy, is going to be a hit! :)

Now - as to how I lay things out for PCBs ... (this one being a little more difficult so far around the first TL074, being single sided) ... wont look pretty. :o But if portions of it may assist someone else in doing a much neater / tidier version, then I'm all for that as well. :)

Last edited by Rykhaard on Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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adambee7



Joined: Apr 04, 2009
Posts: 420
Location: united kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A big thanks to Thomas for yet another masterpiece. Very Happy Very Happy
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
Thomas_Henry wrote:
Heya, Rykhaard,

Sure, go ahead and post your artwork here. That would be a real time-saving aid for the rest of the gang. Keep Scott posted as well; he'd probably want to include links to it in his write-up.

And thanks!

Thomas Henry


Now - as to how I lay things out for PCBs ... (this one being a little more difficult so far around the first TL074, being single sided) ... wont look pretty. Surprised But if portions of it may assist someone else in doing a much neater / tidier version, then I'm all for that as well. Smile


K. Smile My single sided PCB layout for the CD4046 1V/Oct. VCO, is completed. I still have to double verify it though before I post it's artwork here, with many great thanks and appreciation to Thomas, for his permission. Smile

As with all of my PCBs, it may be considered ugly to many, but all of the components are labelled (in copper), except for a small # of the trimmer's names. (Their values are there.)

I'll verify the layout on lunch at work today, making any required corrections after work (including addition of the PCB's power input capacitors.) Once that's done, I'll post it to this thread for everyone to gander at. It may also be modified at will. I know others who are more familiar with layout rulings etc. that I'm unaware of, would do things differently. Once it's confirmed as correct at least, it'll give me the ability to make a bunch of Thomas's VCOs for myself. Very Happy
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This circuit took a little longer than most do. That's otay though. I verified it at work; found bugs; cleared them up and well ... there're more errors to find yet, apparently. I've pulled the err'd PCB to find and repair the errors.
Last edited by Rykhaard on Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:34 am; edited 3 times in total
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Thomas for once again going where few dare to venture!!!
and thanks for sharing the layout Ryk
maybe its just me but the rampoid pad looks pretty close to the ground trace, no doubt it will test my P'n'P skill!

I have about twenty 4046s here & they are all TI Sad
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
Thanks Thomas for once again going where few dare to venture!!!
and thanks for sharing the layout Ryk
maybe its just me but the rampoid pad looks pretty close to the ground trace, no doubt it will test my P'n'P skill!


Thanks for making mention of that Andrew! A LOT of stuff in there is closer than I liked, but I were trying to get away from as many jumpers as I could, juggling everything.
Even though I've printed (PnP) 4 off to cook for myself, I'm going to do another check of it. If there're changes I'll hopefully be able to replace the above one with the new one.

Quote:

I have about twenty 4046s here & they are all TI Sad


Aww no way! Sad That really sux! Sad
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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
Posts: 353
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coming over from the lunetta forum, the 4046 caught my eye. I now see this is a toally different beast, and Im liking what I see. This could very well be my first actual VCO.

Thanks thomas henry, this looks and sounds great!

Great work on the pcb ryk, must have been hard cramming it onto this single sided board. With my lack of experience on making pcb's, I guess I'll wait for the finalized version.

keep up the good work thumb up

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drapdap



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard!

i really hope you don't mind, but i converted your neat pcb for pnp, as i'm keen to try this one out, it still might be too funky for some, but i guess it goes for this one, just want to give it a try, i might make a proper pcb with power connectors if i've got one going, but i thought i'll share this, it's your work after all, i just cleaned it in vain so one can try it. Thank you Thomas, thank you Ryk! It will be next to my 566 vco's. Smile

also, im really looking forward to the vcf Thomas and Scott been teasing us here... Any info on that? Smile And there's also another cmos vco? 4069? Smile

róbert


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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

drapdap wrote:
Rykhaard!

i really hope you don't mind, but i converted your neat pcb for pnp, as i'm keen to try this one out, it still might be too funky for some, but i guess it goes for this one, just want to give it a try, i might make a proper pcb with power connectors if i've got one going, but i thought i'll share this, it's your work after all, i just cleaned it in vain so one can try it. Thank you Thomas, thank you Ryk! It will be next to my 566 vco's. Smile

also, im really looking forward to the vcf Thomas and Scott been teasing us here... Any info on that? Smile And there's also another cmos vco? 4069? Smile

róbert


Whoa! That must have taken you a heck of a long time for editing! Surprised Smile I don't mind at all! Very Happy With Thomas's permission coming to me without my asking, I'm completely open to anyone changing it, in whichever way. Very Happy

My only question: do you have a silk layer to show all of the values everywhere? (Maybe that's why mine looks so crowded, in comparison to yours, which looks so beautifully neat and tidy! Very Happy

NOTE TO PNP USERS: (as I'm one of them as well.) If you'd like the PNP layout for printing, let me know and I'll post it here as well. Smile You could always just reverse the image I had posted above, anyways. So, that may not matter. (Ahhh. But it will - the silkscreen layouts would have to be removed. Doh, on my part.
Anyhoo - lemme know if anyone wishes for the reversed output of it then, or, the original Express PCB file itself. I can mail it to you. Smile )
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State Machine
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Joined: Apr 17, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rich

I am impressed with the layout. It looks nice and tight. Nice work on doing it on a single side. Very cool for the PCB DIY crowd. Wink

PS: Your MC14046 chips should be arriving soon man !

Scott Stites will be testing some RCA chips soon. I have shipped him 5 to run the experiment. The longer the list of chip manufacturers gets, the more options for folks here in our forum. Thanks Scott Wink



Bill
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine wrote:
Rich

I am impressed with the layout. It looks nice and tight. Nice work on doing it on a single side. Very cool for the PCB DIY crowd. Wink

PS: Your MC14046 chips should be arriving soon man !


Much thank yous Bill! I haven't thought it were the neatest looking but as I've previously explained ... Smile

Here's to major hoping that others can use it and that others DO (use SOME PCB layout, anyways.)
This circuit to me, with the sounds from it that Scott had done, is one beautiful answer for LOW COST VCOs, with a great amount of sonic capability!

And many thank yous for those chips coming! Very Happy I have a PnP done for 4 boards. If all come out well - there's twice my # of VCOs as soon as they're built / tuned! Very Happy

Scott Stites will be testing some RCA chips soon. I have shipped him 5 to run the experiment. The longer the list of chip manufacturers gets, the more options for folks here in our forum. Thanks Scott Wink


Bill[/quote]

Ooo! Here's to hoping, especially if RCA is still cranking them out! Very Happy
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've integrated Ryk's layout into the page.

http://www.birthofasynth.com/Thomas_Henry/Pages/X-4046.html

Thanks, Ryk!

Cheerios,
Scott

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Adam-V



Joined: Jan 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice work guys!

Is anyone considering doing boards and/or kits for this?

Cheers,
Adam-V

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krellmusician



Joined: Mar 28, 2007
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The 4046 has been one of my top 5 ICs since it first appeared in 1974. Amazing to see a full-featured VCO built around it! I'd be good for 2 or 3 boards (at least) if one becomes widely available.
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slacker



Joined: Nov 18, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've built the core of it on vero, and using an MC14046 I was able to tune it over 5 octaves without too much trouble. I did try it with a TI CD4046 as well and like Scott I couldn't even get it to do 1 octave.
If it's Ok with everyone, I'd be happy to post a layout once I've built the rest of it and tidied it up a bit.

A quick question for anyone who's built it, do the trimmers for the wave shaper sections need to be multiturn or are single turn Ok?


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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow! Excellent to see! Very Happy

If you're looking for clearance from my layout - please! Go right ahead! Very Happy I myself am quite surprised that the previous fanfare has almost completely died. Sad
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Thomas_Henry



Joined: Jul 24, 2009
Posts: 129
Location: N. Mankato, MN

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Slacker,

Yes, please do post your layout. Thanks!

And thanks for the confirmation on manufacturers. I'm still amazed at how rotten the TI chip is for this. It was a good thing I didn't use one myself or I probably would have given up early on.

slacker wrote:

A quick question for anyone who's built it, do the trimmers for the wave shaper sections need to be multiturn or are single turn Ok?


Only the tuning trimmers need be multiturn. The waveforms are easy to tweak with ordinary trimmers.

Thomas Henry
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
If it's Ok with everyone, I'd be happy to post a layout once I've built the rest of it and tidied it up a bit.


yes please!
It looks like a nice and compact build, and with the veroboard this is going to be very cheap, good job thumb up

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forbin



Joined: Jan 29, 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thought that i would chuck in my progress on the X4046. I started a PCB before Rykhaard's came out... I have finished stuffing it but have yet to test it. I checked in a couple of additions in an extra sync mode which makes use of the Phase Decriminator that was unused otherwise. It has required the addition of a 4093 and an opamp for the filter (probably overkill for the filter) but I was interested to see how it works. I now think that I should have gone further and added some dividers to sync to octaves etc. I have given some thought to hacking in a PSoC 8 pin chip to do this... I have been fighting with a Moog 921 VCO clone and it makes use of an analog multiplier to provide sync so I was intersted to see how the 4046 will work. Not as well I suspect as the phase descrimination is in the digital domain and I'm not sure that you are going to get local maxima at some of the common ratio's... Will let you know how it goes! Thanks to Thomas for another very clever adaption on an Oscillator Chip!


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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so i decided to add two 4046 VCOs to my new cabinet. i started to populate the two left prototype VCO core PCBs. they output triangle and saw only.
i plan to build one saw/tri VCO and one full blown VCO (requires additional wave shaper PCB).
below my panel sketch for the full blown one (the pushbutton will have a built-in LED, the legend will change to AC only then):


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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Embarassed course is something different than coarse, isn't it?
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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject: X-4046 VCO Page is Up Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
Embarassed course is something different than coarse, isn't it?


Of course, of coarse.


Tim (my pony has a sore throat, he's a little horse) Servo
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forbin



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well my PCB worked OK -- apart from a missing resistor and a tiny short, which took a little while to find. I used an NXP (Phillips) 4046 and all seems well. Got the expected shapes after a little bit of tweaking. The triangle and sawtooth are a little hot being about +- 5.6V -- I am thinking about changing the feedback resistors slightly. Still need to trim the V/octave controls but I have misplaced my temco's... Also using the PLL discriminator for the extra sync mode still needs some more thought...

Hopefully will be able to tune this tomorrow after a rummage in the shed for the tempco's and post some graphs. I have a Fairchild 4046 as well so will try that for academic interest.
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slacker



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thomas_Henry wrote:

Only the tuning trimmers need be multiturn. The waveforms are easy to tweak with ordinary trimmers.


Thanks for confirming that.

Just thought I post a picture of the completed board. It's a bit of a mess because it's built on 2 pieces of vero but it all works great Smile
The layout will be neater and use less insulated jumpers, I've just got to correct a couple of errors, generally tidy it up and re draw the expo converter because I used a different version to the original. Hopefully it will be ready sometime next week.


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