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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
NMG2 Open Source Editor
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brunov



Joined: Aug 03, 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

These are a stream of messages from the g2.

The led's are just on/off values as you would expect and the volume indicators are byte values.

I'm not sure how to convert this byte value to an exact decibel value. At the moment I'm using this formula:

procedure TG2MiniVU.SetLedLevel(aValue: integer);
begin
// -40dB 0dB Green aValue 0..7
// 0dB 11dB Yellow 9..41/42
// >11dB Red 75/76
if aValue = 0 then
FLevel := 0
else
FLevel := round(FMiniVUHeight*system.math.log10(aValue)*0.45); // Something like this...
Redraw;
end;

The 0.45 is just a number I came up with to make the vu-meters in the editor resemble the ones in the original editor as close as possible, but it's most likely not correct.

I could probably plot this data in a graph and show it somewhere in the editor to begin with. I'll try something this weekend.

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grimley



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah good to know but please don't kill yourself trying to implement this!! The lack of an oscilloscope in the G2 always irked me. Sometimes it can be difficult to figure out what is going on in a patch. In my eurorack setup I use an O'Tool module which I find invaluable.
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brunov



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Grimley,

I did the little experiment, but unfortunately what's coming from the G2 for the vu-meters is not something that can be used as data for a scope.

These vu-meter messages have the lowest priority, so as soon as the you increase frequency the message stream stops and you only get the max volume level as a constant.

Only with an LFO or a VCO on the lowest frequency level did I get something resembling a waveform in the graph.

It was worth the try, but based on this I guess you're much better off with the O'Tool module.


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My old OS NMG2 editor: http://sourceforge.net/projects/nmg2editor/?source=directory
My new G2 editor FMX: http://www.bverhue.nl/g2dev/?page_id=17
Source code: https://github.com/BVerhue/nord_g2_editor
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grimley



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Damn that was quick! Ah well it was worth a try. In fact it may still be useful if it works with low frequency signals as often it is modulation that you want to monitor/debug anyway. Worth a thought.
Thanks for your amazing efforts.

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brunov



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think I reached a stage where my new project is ready for some beta testing. Smile Phew, has been quite a lot of work, but it seems to work o.k. now both on Windows and OSX.

So this is an G2 editor with an experimental user interface. I'm really not sure if it will be an improvement over the old interface, but we'll see, it's a start.

I've tested it on a couple different computers and operating systems:

- Windows XP : works, but graphics are not great
- Windows 7 : works, graphics a bit better not as good as Windows 8
- Windows 8/81 : works, graphics are good
- OSX Snow leopard : works, graphcs are good
- Android : haven't been able to get usb working, graphics not great
- iOS : tested once on the emulator, no usb, slow and graphics where not great at all.

I meant to make somthing that can be used on a touch screen, but I have not been able to try it out except on a low-end Android device with a very small screen and without an USB connection. On that device it didn't work very well.

So, not much succes yet on tablets, but I'm happy with the results on OSX and Windows 8 for now. The most promissing tablet at the moment would be one with Windows 8 installed. I don't have such a tablet, maybe someone else can try this out.

I created a help file, this is located here : http://www.bverhue.nl/G2editorFMXHelp/G2_editor_fmx_help.html.

I also created a page where the editor can be downloaded, you can find it here : http://www.bverhue.nl/g2dev/?page_id=17

You must realize this is all very experimental software, it will not work without errors in this stage.

On windows, it is necessary to install Libusb, I think this is not necessary on Osx. Either way, If you want to try it out, read the helpfile first and post a reply here if you don't understand something.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That looks good Bruno.

Just read the help file, and I think you are presenting some interesting ideas for the user interface, and it looks to me that a good lot of those would work on a touch device.

Heh, cable drawing will take some getting used to Wink

Is there a way to get a version deployed on an iPad? I do have an iPad with iOS6 (could upgrade to iOS7) and a Win8.1 PC with Delphi XE5 here, but no phone support for XE5.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The zero Hz option for oscillator frequencies seems to be not present in the editor (in Partial mode), the 2nd step does display 0.004 Hz correctly tho, so I assume this to be cosmetic only. (have no actual G2 attached).

I would like to have a better visual clue as to what module is selected - like the title background going into a different color .. also the module alignment seems off by one pixel .. when you now select a module in the middle of a bunch of modules it is almost like it visually goes to the background.

The imaging scales really nice - win8 here.

For a touch screen the tabs seem a little small to hit - but can not test that .. heh .. now i wish i would have bought this new win8 thingie with a touch screen Rolling Eyes

The init variation ... not sire how you implemented that .. on the clavia editor you can copy a variation to the init variation, then go to a variation, then hit the init button to initialise that variation with the init variation ... that seems not possible in your editor?

And .. in the Clavia editor there is an option to select a bunch of modules, then hit ctrl+c to get 'm on the clipboard, then go to another variation and then hit ctrl+e to copy the knob settings over to that other variation - very handy!

Also the keyboard shortcuts 1 .. 8 to select a variation are much used here. You can actually play a patch by changing variations that way, its fun Smile And also handy to quickly copy over settings from one variation to another.

Some more issues with morphs or maybe i misunderstand ... in the Clavia editor i can select if the morph in wheel or in knob mode, and when it is in knob mode I can control the morph with a knob in the editor, there is no need to associate it with a MIDI CC, and it is still handy to be able to control a bunch of settings with one knob - I dont seem to see that functionality in your editor.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok .. this is turning into a bit of a list eh ...

by no means it is meant to say 'it sucks', there are some good ideas too (like the piano roll thingie for instance, and the zoomability).

Also a lot of stuff 'just works', which is an accomplishment in itself, so actually you did a great job I think.

All the remarks are just meant to tell you a bit about how I work with the Clavia editor, and how I've become to find some features in the Clavia editor very useful.

And .. this is a first impression, only spent an hour on it, it looks promising enough to me to spend more time on it, not right now though.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another handy thing on the Clavia editor Cool

you click drag a knob and hold it, then you select a different variation with it's keyboard shortcut and the currently held value will be the new value in that other variation too.

Example:

Say you have an osc tuned to E4 in all variations, and you currently are in variation 1 and you use the mouse to drag the tune knob to E5 and then press 3, 5, 7 on the keyboard, then after that variations 2, 4, 6, 8 still have the E4 set and variations 1, 3, 5, 7 will have E5 instead .

This is very handy to edit and sync up a parameter over some of the variations.

Edit: for a touch interface something alike could be done when you have multi finger detection .. one finger held on the knob after a value drag and then with another finger hit buttons 3, 5, 7 ... maybe?

Edit 2: alsp with some of the other things mentioned before, the 1 ... 8 keyboard shortcuts are hand .. press 3, click init to copy the settings saved into the init variation to to variation 3.

Press 5 then ctrl+e to paste the parameters in the clipboard to the selected modules in variation 5.

BTW, on that last one the "copied selection" needs to be the same as the "pasted to selection", or else nothing will happen - it would not make much sense otherwise.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On a side note ...

computers started with a keyboard only, and then later a mouse was added ... then after a while there was some great combined use of both two input methods. Then after a longer while people lost the keyboard, and they just clicked, and forgot all about how handy the combination of keyboard and mouse can be.

Now we have touch added, and it started its life as a mouse replacement ... after a while multi touch was added which was handy for pad thingies and phones.

And now on some computers we have touch, some have multi touch, some have a mouse and a keyboard, some have touch and mouse and keyboard .. it has become the challenge to make a user interface that works good on all the possible combinations .. and that will actually be used too by people Confused

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brunov



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Jan, thanks very much testing! You're mentioning quite a few things I didn't even know where in the original editor.

I'm going to make a list of things to look at, so let me make a start by what you found out already:

- Zero herz of Osc in partial mode, probably something not right in the display formula.
- Selected modules are not really standing out in the patch window
- Tabs might be too small for a touch screen.
- Init variation, yes, how you describe it I didn't implement it correctly.
- Ctrl-E to copy module parameters missing
- Drag and hold a knob and select other variation copies parameter value missing.

Altough I made something simular to sync a parameter value in all variations with the "Edit all" button on the slot strip.

Here are a couple of itmes which you mention, that should work, but maybe not as expected.

Short cut keys 1..8 to select a variation should work, I don't really understand why they don't work with you, maybe you can have a look again? Keys A,B,C,D should select slot, V,F should select VA location or FX location and 1..8 should select variation

The morphs you can control in the "Knobs" frame. In the knobs frame you can select Morph in the radio button on the bottom left. Then in the bottom row of buttons you can toggle "Wheel" or "Knob" mode. In Knob mode the slider will change the parameters in accordance with the assigned morph amount.

About your question if it can be deployed on an iPad. I'll have a look if I can do that. It would be without USB, but at least it would be interesting to see how the touch functionality works. I tried it on the iOS simulator once, there it was very slow.



Thanks again for testing.

_________________
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My new G2 editor FMX: http://www.bverhue.nl/g2dev/?page_id=17
Source code: https://github.com/BVerhue/nord_g2_editor
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brunov wrote:
Short cut keys 1..8 to select a variation should work


Ah yes, they do - don't know how I missed that Confused

However .. in the Clavia editor when you drag a knob to a position and then go through the variations with the keyboard shortcut the value will be set in all the variations you go through ... in your editor the knob will jump to its current setting in the new variation.

When making some variations on a patch what I often do is is to first sync up all the variations, such that they are the same - either through the variation init mechanism or through the ctrl+c ctrl+e thing. Then I will go to a variation, change some knob and then go through some other variations with the keyboard shortcuts 1 .. 8 so that that new value will be in a couple of other variations as well ... then repeat that for another knob for some other set of variations .. that way I can quickly make some related permutations.

I've no idea if this was designed in or just a lucky accident, but it allows for some very easy and quick editing.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brunov wrote:
The morphs you can control in the "Knobs" frame. In the knobs frame you can select Morph in the radio button on the bottom left. Then in the bottom row of buttons you can toggle "Wheel" or "Knob" mode. In Knob mode the slider will change the parameters in accordance with the assigned morph amount.


Ah ok, seeing it now. There is one omission ... The 'sust pd' thing should be three valued, 'Sust pd', 'G Wh 1' and 'knob' - the others are all just two valued.

Ok, and I can morph them there which the clavia editor can not do .. but it seems not possible to add a MIDI CC for those (I use CC2 on a morph group knob often, or CC7 is handy too)?

Also it seems not possible to give names to the Morph group kobs?

heh, this is where i put my copyright message .. like

Code:

                    (C)  2104 blue hell
( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )
knob knob knob knob knob knob knob knob


But useful text sometimes too ...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another thingie .. default knob settings .. noticed this on LfoC ... the wave polarity will initially be negative, non inverted ... no big deal as its easily changed, but then thought of the right click you can do on a knob in the Clavia editor to get a popup menu which allows for some actions .. one of them being setting the default value ... would be handy to have a button somewhere to set things to their default value .. prolly in the "param" tab?

Anyway, if you didnt already ... some stuff seems covered some other stuff not directly ... maybe worthwhile to go through the popup menus on knobs and connectors, there are some hidden gems there too.

Ow .. oops ...


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Was trying to find a way to do a cable 'break' and just clicked a bit to see what cable delete options would show up ... anyway, the cable break option seems to be not present ... will have to use that a bit more to be able to be specific ... but did want to post the oops Wink

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry, cable break seems possible (and a bit more flexible than on the Clavia editor), but the option does not seem to show up always ... I seem to not always get the same delete options when i click on a connector .. might be me, but dunno ... some strange things seem to happen there. Seeing blank delete buttons sometimes, or I did see two one blank on the right one with text on the left, but text drawn in the middle as if the two combined were one button ... forgot to get a screen capture of it tho.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok Jan, your comments where very usefull. I think I managed to solve most problems.

I've made a new Beta version 0.2 which can be downloaded on my developement page: http://www.bverhue.nl/g2dev/?page_id=17

The list of problems solved in v0.2:

1. Osc didn’t show zero Herz correctly in partial mode

2. Changed border for selected modules to dark gray in stead of white, to make them stand out better

3. Spaced modules out a few pixels in the patch window also to make the selected ones stand out better

4. “Init variation” function wasn’t implemented correctly, also added a button “Copy to init” on the Param tab.

5. Added “Select all VA” en “Select all FX” on Module tab.

6. Implemented the “Paste params” function (Ctrl+E), also added a “Paste params” button on the Module tab.

7. Implemeted function “Change morph labels”: select Morph in Knobs frame, select a slider, on the Params tab you can edit the label.

8. Added a knob Default value on Params tab.

9. Corrected an error on renaming performances

10. Icons of the level shift controls on LFO’s didn’t match the selected value, corrected that.

11. Sustain pedal morph button has three modes “Sust pd”, “G Wh 1″ and “knob”, I had only put in two, corrected that.

12. Corrected an error in the Delete buttons of the Add Cable popup frame.

13. A number of small bugs.

One thing you mention about assiging CC to Morph should already be possible, at least when I try it works: select a morph slider, selct Param tab enter CC number in Midi CC edit box and press Enter, then click on button Assign CC. See image below.

The other thing about holding down a knob and changing the variation to copy the value to that varition. Did'n manage to include that in this version. Have to think about that one.

I'll update the help later on.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, that looks like some great updates!

Will download the new one and have a look soon.

Right .. it was a white border on a white background ... win8 makes a lot of stuff white if it was not explicitly set in Delphi it seems ... enforcing it's style better than previous windows versions do .. except that it is not always too clear .. it's style that is. But then again I did not have that much time yet to experiment with the new windows and the new Delphi.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wanted to load a patch from file, this is not possible? (i do not have libusb installed or a G2 connected .. maybe that is the reason?)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, and adding a Midi CC to a morph works indeed ... it is a bit of a learning curve Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is such an awesome piece of work, and now I've finally gotten around to trying this some more. I thought I'd try it out on my OSX machine. I haven't read through the manual yet, but I ran into a problem.

Testing on a G2 Engine, OSX 10.9.1, my iMac is 3-4 years old, with 3.2 GHz Intel Core i3, 4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3.

I opened up the fmx editor. It connected to my g2 just fine and I got a nice view of what is running on my machine. I moved some modules around a bit, it's a bit slow in updating but it works.

I wanted to try to make a sequencer patch, so I removed everything (first stumbleblock here was that I tried to first find a "new performance/patch" action to no avail, then I tried to select everything by dragging the mouse like on the old editor, but that seems to move the canvas around - I got it working by ctrl-A and then delete - possibly I just need to read the manual a bit more).

Then I added modules by double clicking them in there, making connections by single clicking (again, I probably just need to read the manual to get this to work more fluently). Then I made the last connection to the audio out and expected some sound, but there was none. I figured I had made something wrong with the sequencer thingie, so I removed connections and just connected the oscillator straight to the output, still nothing.

I felt that something was wrong here, so I closed FMX and opened Clavia's editor, which immediately showed me a dialog saying "Version Corrupted. Ctrl assignment problem." Can this be related to why there is no sound? The patch is still in there somehow and shows up when I open Clavia's editor (though it complains as above). When I open FMX now it shows "No synth". I'm going to try rebooting and reproducing.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hm couldn't reproduce easily... I'll keep my eyes open for if it happens again.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also ignore the previous woes I had (besides getting a corrupt patch) - it was true I needed to read the manual. Smile
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Location: delft
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Antimon. Thanks for testing Smile

If there you run into a corrupt patch again I definitely want to know.

Another thing what maybe could trigger this if you switch between Clavia editor and this one without resetting the G2 in between. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. This has to do with how the editors start/stop the usb stream. There is a difference which I haven't figured out exactly.

Adding a module should be a matter of double clicking and the module should end up in the patch frame where the green square is.

Jan, about loading a patch. There is a "Patch directory" edit box on the "App settings" frame. If you put in your root patch directory, you can push the "Refresh" button on the Patch tab to update the file treeview. There are also the load/save patch files or performances buttons. See picture below.

Just to make sure, I'd save patches is a special test directory because the risk of patch corruption, what Antimon might have run into. If you run into a corrupt patch please send it to me. I haven't run into corrupt patches myself.


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My old OS NMG2 editor: http://sourceforge.net/projects/nmg2editor/?source=directory
My new G2 editor FMX: http://www.bverhue.nl/g2dev/?page_id=17
Source code: https://github.com/BVerhue/nord_g2_editor
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brunov wrote:
Jan, about loading a patch. There is a "Patch directory" edit box on the "App settings" frame. If you put in your root patch directory, you can push the "Refresh" button on the Patch tab to update the file treeview. There are also the load/save patch files or performances buttons. See picture below.

Just to make sure, I'd save patches is a special test directory because the risk of patch corruption, what Antimon might have run into. If you run into a corrupt patch please send it to me. I haven't run into corrupt patches myself.


Just set it to c:\ ... don't try that at home Laughing (it crashes the editor). Oh and it will not start again after that either ... tried to edit appsettings.xml but that didnt help either ...

Special directory, yup, good plan.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm .. right .. just unzipped it again, but it keeps scanning the patch folder for ever now .. where do I look? in the registry?

edit : in other words : I bricked it Cool

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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