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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
4051 ANY gate, more fun than a 4051 oscillator.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: 4051 ANY gate, more fun than a 4051 oscillator.
Subject description: or NANY gate, baaa baaa!
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After a day of fruitless efforts I thought all my time was wasted but now after a few hours of tinkering, at 20 minutes to midnight, I bring you the 3 input ANY gate!

Depending on the logic levels of the Y inputs, you can make this thing into any gate; known or unknown! Hence the name ANY gate Smile
Rather, it will behave in the same was as any gate.

Things get really interesting though when you feel the Y inputs and binary inputs (A,B,C) with oscillators! I find that low frequency oscillators (LFOs) work best on the Y inputs and audio frequency on the ABC inputs.
You can get everything from digital bleeps and clicks to funny little rhythms and amazing space drones.

I'd love to combine this with VCO's and control them with some LFO's or other frequency modulation sources.

Sound samples coming soon!


ANY gate.png
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ANY gate.png



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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't get it...
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Whats not to get? Question
The binary control inputs; A, B and C act as the inputs of the gate, they control which of the Y inputs are connected to X. Then you just change Y to be whatever you want, giving you the effective operation of any other logic gate. E.G. Connecting Y7 to logic 1 and all the other Y's to 0 gives the effect of a 3 input AND gate.
It's just usual multiplexing but I usually consider the Y's as signal/data inputs, whereas in this case the binary inputs are the signal/data input.


I'll go into some more detail but for explanation purposes I will use a two bit multiplexer.

Here is the truth table for it:

Code:

 A | B | Y
 ---------
 0 | 0 | Y0
 1 | 0 | Y1
 0 | 1 | Y2
 1 | 1 | Y3

The Y column denotes which Y input is connected to X, the common output.

Now if we connect the Y inputs as shown below, then X will give the output of an XOR gate.

Code:

 A | B | Y   | X
 -----------------
 0 | 0 | Y0=0| 0
 1 | 0 | Y1=1| 1
 0 | 1 | Y2=1| 1
 1 | 1 | Y3=0| 0


It's pretty much the same old multiplexing this chip would ordinarily do, but considering the ABC inputs as the data/signal input instead of a control. The Y inputs then act as a control for the output for each conbination of binary input.

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


Algebraic.
I wired it up slightly wrong so it doesn't make as many fun weird sounds as it can, around half way I am perplexed by it's lack of the sounds it made on breadboard but it makes good sounds anyway.
I'll fix it tomorrow, I am stressed out now Sad

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fixed it and made two more videos of it Smile I just love playing with this device, It makes such cosmic sounds!






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dougseidel



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

totally cool!
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jean bender



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thumb up thumb up
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RingMad



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some cools sounds in there! I like the sortof bell tone patterns like near the beginning of the 1st working video, and the slow changing drone stuff.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RingMad wrote:
Some cools sounds in there! I like the sortof bell tone patterns like near the beginning of the 1st working video, and the slow changing drone stuff.

Yeah! Very Happy I love them too! Thats with the settings set to "XOR ringmod" but it constantly changes. Smile

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schmelfhelp



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ooh awesome! nice klangy sounds there. I'm gonna have a build of this. Smile
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lets see the results if/when you do Smile I'd like to hear what your version sounds like.
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Banjo



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This thing sounds great, so much so that I had to include some 4051's in my last parts order. I breadboarded a couple of oscillators up to it and was hooked. Tomorrow, I will breadboard the rest of it and start experimenting. Will connect at least one of the ABC inputs to a sequencer gate and see what happens. I also have a few red/blue/green LEDs that I will power from the signal going into the ABC inputs as well.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The ABC inputs should be your audio signals, a gate from a sequencer will be boring. It's a better idea to connect the gate to one or more of the Y inputs, then things will get more interesting, however the gate from your sequencer is really no different than the LFO's I have shown in my diagram, except that you can program more complex patterns with it Smile
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Banjo



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Last night I wanted to reply to this but fell asleep. This morning I want to reply, but my wife wants me to get out the door to check out the garage sales. Hopefully I can find some good interesting gear. Anyway.

This is my first real attempt at trying to do anything with logic beyond a 4017 based sequencer, of which I built two, that need a bit of tweekng. So the 4051 is new territory.

For now I have to limit myself to one question and get out the door. What determines whether the ABC signal is being output through the common out port, or whether the Y input is being output, or is the beauty of it that one has no idea due to the constantly changing state of the inputs?

I really need the 4051 for dummies version. I have been searching online for the answer to my questions, but only get part of the answers that I am looking for. Now I have to get out the door, before my wife has a fit.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banjo wrote:

For now I have to limit myself to one question and get out the door. What determines whether the ABC signal is being output through the common out port, or whether the Y input is being output, or is the beauty of it that one has no idea due to the constantly changing state of the inputs?

Tend to the females now, and ponder upon the mysteries of the logic chips for later Wink

The 4051 is a multiplexer. The standard way to use a multiplexer is via the binary inputs A,B and C, which determine which of the Y inputs is connected to the common output, X.
A, B and C form a binary number pattern ranging from 0 to 7; A can be thought to have value 1, B=2 and C=4. Then with combinations of these inputs any of the eight Y inputs can be selected, they are numbered from 0 to 7.

e.g. Make B and C logic high, to connect input Y6 to the output (2 + 4 = 6)

This is the standard behaviour of a multiplexer, usually used to connect different data streams to one common bus. However, in this case, I'm thinking about things differently by using the binary inputs as the signal inputs.

I hope that clears some things up a bit Smile

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Banjo



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, I am still confused, but I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Usually that is the light of an oncoming train Shocked

You had mentioned connecting the audio signals to ABC. So, if I have the Who connected to A, the Beatles to B, and the Stones to C, those signals will either scramble the Y inputs and make crazy noises depending on what is connected to the Y inputs, or somehow I will hear the Who, Beatles and the Stones.

It is my understanding that like you said ABC determine which Y is being fed to X. Somehow I am getting the impression that the status of the 8 Y inputs can determine which ABC input if fed to X, and that is where my confusion lies if I explained it correctly. Heck, I get confused just trying to explain my confusion Laughing

When I wired it up on the breadboard, I think I went overboard in trying to get it to do too much. I got some cool sounds out of it, but it was unstable. That's ok because it got me working in new territory. Never gonna learn it if you don't start doing it.

Thanks for your reply, and patience. Sooner or later it will all make sense Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Joe, you're brilliant! I never thought to use an 8 input mux this way and it's the perfect solution that I've been looking at for my boolean sequencer board. Wow, good work man!

Les

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Carry on the good work banjo, I think you are over complicating things a bit, it's really very simple; I'll draw you up a truth table which really helped me understand things better (see attachments).

I will explain a bit more; Using your metaphor, you will get a combination of the Beatles the Stones and the Who Smile
lets look at only the A and B inputs, if they are both high, Y3 is connected to X. (Because A=1 and B=2, 1+2=3) If Y3 is high, and all other Y inputs low, then you get the effect of an AND gate. If Y3 is low and all other Y inputs high, you will get the effect of a NAND gate.
Then, just like feeding signals into a regular gate, if you feed them into A, B and C you can change the Y inputs to change the operation of the "gate" (gate in quotation marks because it is really a multiplexer Smile).

I have added a column on your truth table to allow for the entry of logic states of the Y inputs which will tell you what X will be at different combinations of A,B and C.


Therein lies another interesting idea; the 4051 is an analogue multiplexer. See where I'm going with this? Wink You could add any signal to the other inputs, like a triangle LFO for amplitude modulation.


Inventor, it is my pleasure to be of aid with my mad inventions Very Happy
I look forwards to seeing how you use it, please message me a link to the thread or something when you have documentation Smile


4051 truth table.png
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4051 truth table.png



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RingMad



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JingleJoe wrote:
Using your metaphor, you will get a combination of the Beatles the Stones and the Who Smile


Now I'm confused! You mean we can only get British bands out of this? Smile

I want to try this out, but my breadboards are still monopolized by other projects, one of which I guess I should post about here, even though I can't quite tame it.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You should post it anyway, we may be able to help Wink

And yes, only the sounds of 60's/70's British rock bands come out of CMOS chips, everyone knows that! Rolling Eyes

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Banjo



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually, the binary switches determine which decade, and the direction of the signal flow determine whether it is British, or American.

Thank you Joe for your explanations. One more question. What are your switches connected to?

I have put this on the back burner for now, as I have just finished connecting an ADSR to it's panel and am putting it through its paces. I have one more ADSR circuit half built, and the panel finished. I cut two more 8 step sequence panels to size, but have not yet started the circuits yet, plus I need to build another rack to hold the sequencers and modules yet to be built.

I will be revisiting the 4051 in another month or two, as it has given me a lot of ideas, but I have to finish the ones I started. Now I need to get some way to post some pictures, and start recording.
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm getting Oasis on the output of mine Confused Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Friends, I'd like to chime in on this one a bit. First, I refer you to another thread:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-41367.html

where you can read about how I am using this wonderful circuit as the key element of a modular synthesizer board design. Skim or skip over the early stuff and get to the posts from yesterday or the day before (circa 4-22-12) to read about and see schematics and layout of the new design.

I have been waiting to develop this board because I was not satisfied with any of my attempts at adding logic, a key element, to it. Nothing worked right and I was at a loss. Then when I read our comical, whimsical, and increasingly talented JingleJoe's opening post to this thread the light bulb went "bink!" and turned on over my head...

Now I believe that many people in the modular world will have access to a truly unique Boolean Sequencer board to the benefit of all listeners. Way to go Joe!

And on the flip side of the coin, I'd like to mention that this ANY gate is also popularly known as a LUT (Look Up Table or Logic UniT) in the FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) world. I spent two years in the telecommunications industry just after getting my MS EE degree programming FPGAs, and never gave much thought as to how they made their LUTs physically. Now I realize that it must have been something like this.

FPGAs are extremely powerful chips because they allow us to make logic-speed and sized implementations of digital algorithms and systems quickly and easily. They are perfect for embedded systems and are widely used. Here in the Lunetta world, now that our eyes have been opened and we have this simple tool for making arbitrary logic functions, we have suddenly become much more capable overall.

The ability to create any desired logic function of three inputs (or other number of inputs with different gates or multiple muxes) is now a powerful enabling feature of the Lunetta community.

Once again, three cheers to my distant friend JingleJoe - we got off on the wrong foot mere weeks ago and now things are entirely different. I can't wait to see what this guy is gonna figure out next!

Les

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banjo wrote:
Actually, the binary switches determine which decade, and the direction of the signal flow determine whether it is British, or American.

Thank you Joe for your explanations. One more question. What are your switches connected to?

The center of the sun. Laughing Which switches?

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Then when I read our comical, whimsical, and increasingly talented JingleJoe's opening post to this thread the light bulb went "bink!" and turned on over my head...

Now I believe that many people in the modular world will have access to a truly unique Boolean Sequencer board to the benefit of all listeners. Way to go Joe!

Thankyou very much Smile I am happy to assist in the creation of weird electronic sounds Very Happy
Inventor wrote:

And on the flip side of the coin, I'd like to mention that this ANY gate is also popularly known as a LUT (Look Up Table or Logic UniT) in the FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) world.

I never knew Laughing (I prefer logic unit, that sounds like it's from the space future!)

Inventor wrote:

The ability to create any desired logic function of three inputs (or other number of inputs with different gates or multiple muxes) is now a powerful enabling feature of the Lunetta community.

Once again, three cheers to my distant friend JingleJoe - we got off on the wrong foot mere weeks ago and now things are entirely different. I can't wait to see what this guy is gonna figure out next!

Les

Thanks again! Thats a grand compliment Very Happy I am glad we are allies now Wink

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