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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Circuit Bending
using TV to display audio signals
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dnny



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:15 am    Post subject:  using TV to display audio signals Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all this topic is all about

using TV to display audio signals.

you may have heard about Wobblevision , Wave Vessel , Analog Visualization Unit, AVU, Psychoscope, o-scope , b&w tv into a large screen oscilloscope kits - -
this is it all in one

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Before we begin, I have to give everyone a warning.
DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS PROJECT!
MODIFYING TV IS A DANGEROUS PROCESS. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW THE DANGERS OF CAPACITORS AND
OTHER ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS. THERE IS A GREAT RISK OF POTENTIALLY DEADLY ELECTRIC SHOCK, AND THERE IS
THE POSSIBILITY OF FIRE OR EXPLOSION.
IF YOU TRY TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS, NO-ONE CANNOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGE OR DEATH CAUSED
WHILE BUILDING OR USING THE DEVICE

before you begin read these safety instructions:
Safe Discharging of Capacitors in TVs and Video Monitors
cathode-ray tube Safety Issues
Deflection System Safety

There are two areas which have particularly nasty electrical dangers: the non-isolated line power supply and the CRT high voltage.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
stay away from the red cable with the suction cup end.

after you have opened the TV unit wear rubber gloves! (longer sleaves better)

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

the principal of this audio signal displaying is that
when TV is normally operated the Deflection Yoke generates a magnetic field and use it to direct the electron beam in the cathode-ray tube. Deflection Yoke gets signals from Deflection Circuit(Board) - Two of the wires control the horizontal motion, and the other two control the vertical motion. you just replace the Deflection Circuit Board signals whit audio signals and there you go.

i have made some schematics to clear how to route audio signals to Deflection Yoke- these schematics are based on information from Censtrons Wave Vessel page and my own experiments

first you need to find out the two horizontal and two vertical wires -
this will help

here you see the wires going to yoke
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

H=horizontal
Hg =horizontal ground
V=vertical
Vg=vertical ground


here is the unmoded version
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
whit this you can see normal TV programs

here is the Censtron version (a
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
whit this setup you get a bar that differens in length (a bit like panel of Kit[car from Knight Rider] when it was speaking)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

here is the Censtron version (b
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
whit this setup you get vertical line that vibrates
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

here is the stereo version
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
whit this setup you get pulsing circles
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

the experimenting is still in progress so i will post more on this soon as i get more results

DBerning on audiokarma.org wrote:
Magnetic deflection TVs of this era needed the deflection yoke for energy storage for the flyback pulse that was used to provide high voltage for the CRT. Because I was using the yoke for audio deflection, I mounted a second deflection yoke somewhere in the TV cabinet so that the inductance from the winding could be used in the flyback-based high-voltage circuit.


so i might also try to find an extra yoke to the flyback pulse -
but sofar it works fine Smile i have use my unit about 10 minutes at one time




here is a link you might want to read:
Other uses for old TVs



hope to get some comments if anyone have build this type of unit

it might be dangerous but it can be done

i have videoclips of my unit working but there is no support for .mpg-files Sad (maybe this can be fixed)

my philips looks like this:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


daniel

ps. the schematics are done whit free RJWSoft Schematic Publisher

Last edited by dnny on Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:28 am; edited 7 times in total
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davep



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: using TV to display audio signals Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dnny wrote:
Hi all this topic is all about

using TV to display audio signals.

There are two areas which have particularly nasty electrical dangers: the non-isolated line power supply and the CRT high voltage.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
stay away from the red cable with the suction cup end.

after you have opened the TV unit wear rubber gloves! (longer sleaves better)


.... just some personal experience with this topic.... when I was still in high school, I had a summer job in a TV repair center. When servicing TVs, the first thing the techs would do would be to discharge the HV cap by shorting it to the chassis using a screwdriver. But sometimes this did not work as expected..... One day, a tech was attempting this, and the discharge arced across the surface of the screwdriver handle to the tech's hand and gave him a huge high voltage shock. He was knocked out instantly, fell over backwards and cracked his skull open on the floor. It nearly killed him. He also bit off the tip of his tongue in the process. I wouldn't stick my fingers in there for anything.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I appreciate Dave's warning, and the warnings that DNNY himself posted. As the admin here, I thought quite a bit about removing this post because of the dangers. I've decided to leave it here. There are many things in real life that are dangerous. Composing music can be dangerous too. Many years a ago a guy threatened to kill me because he didn't like my music, or maybe because his girlfriend did. Shocked

Well, working on TV sets is probably much more dangerous than composing music, but be very careful nonetheless. Also, be sure not to walk in front of a moving train and don't put your hand into a garbage disposal unit.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I thought quite a bit about removing this post because of the dangers.


Remove the post ... you americans are crazy ... this is FUN !!

But indeed try to be carefull, last time I toyed with a TV a power chip from the power supply exploded and parts of it hit the ceiling. An accidental short circuit, but I had to have it on for measurement to be made.

Jan.
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dnny



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: using TV to display audio signals Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dnny wrote:
DBerning on audiokarma.org wrote:
Magnetic deflection TVs of this era needed the deflection yoke for energy storage for the flyback pulse that was used to provide high voltage for the CRT. Because I was using the yoke for audio deflection, I mounted a second deflection yoke somewhere in the TV cabinet so that the inductance from the winding could be used in the flyback-based high-voltage circuit.


so i might also try to find an extra yoke to the flyback pulse -
but sofar it works fine Smile i have use my unit about 10 minutes at one time


okay i did find the extra yoke - but it was not the same type - so this is what happened:

the picture was extremely bright! i mean really really bright. so i was very happy for a while it looked so cool.
after some 15 -30mins both of the TV sets fuses burn.
so what happened is that i drived the CRT whit too much voltage and it started to produce X-rays. so now im feeling really sick maybe because of the radiation overdose- hope that it goes away.

so what did we learn? -
if you want to ad the extra yoke to extra brightnes you need to measure the yokes inductance first and then find another yoke that has the same properties.
(or if you want a cheapo X-ray machine just replace the fuses whit thik wire)Wink

i think deleting this post is not so good idea - i don't courage anyone to build this kind of unit - but there are always some jerks like me- that will do it anyway - so i want to share information that those people that do attempt this have as much info about it as possible

daniel

Last edited by dnny on Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am really sorry to hear you are not feeling well, Daniel. I certainly hope you weren't exposed to Xrays. Maybe you just happend to get some bug. I hope that's more like it. Be sure to rest up and get your strength back.

No no, I'm not going to delete the thread. I just said that I considered it. Maybe it is pointless to say I'm considering doing something and then not doing it. You are right, it is good for people to learn from each other. That's what we are here for.

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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:41 am    Post subject: X-ray radiation on TV Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi all im feeling lot better now

i called to The Radiation and Nuclear Safety Authority of Finland
and asked if i have been exposed to any radiation danger by moding my tv. and they sayid that there is very small possibility to get enough radiation from CRTs - in their test the maximum X-ray radiation from television has been 100mGy/h (hundred milliGrays per hour) and after that the tube has collapsed.

to get symptoms from X-rays you need to get at least 100Gy
the symptoms are then the same type of skin burns you get from sun.

the X-ray radiation on tv-set is stronger in the back of the tube than in the front. the X-ray borns when electrode hits the phosphor wall. X-ray bounces back to the inner walls of tube. it keeps bouncing and gets weaker and dies - the glass is thicker in the back so some x-rays get through but we are talking of really small amounts of radiation.

daniel

Last edited by dnny on Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm glad to hear the chance of Xray radiation is small. Thanks for the update.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all you twisted people! ;)

I found this little circuit link a while back looking for a TV oscilloscope- for all those who don't want to fry themselves!

http://www.intio.or.jp/jf10zl/tvosc.htm

It's on my 'to build' list but that could take a while to get round to. Please let me know if anyone has any joy with it.

Tom
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dnny



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Hi all you twisted people! Wink

I found this little circuit link a while back looking for a TV oscilloscope- for all those who don't want to fry themselves!

http://www.intio.or.jp/jf10zl/tvosc.htm


so if we take a look also on these NON-fry yourself -models of TV oscilloscopes here is nice page whit detailed instructions and PCB layouts, front panels and all . . . its bit more complicated but it has more options

Tele-Scope

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

dnny
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah the tele-scope looks great- but have you tried looking on the internet for a few of the chips inside? Secondhand oscilloscopes are really cheap these days (I bought mine for a tenner).

However, while we are on the subject of oscilloscopes, I found this one the other day;

http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/Default.aspx?tabid=30&ProductID=2418

dead cute eh?
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dnny



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Yeah the tele-scope looks great- but have you tried looking on the internet for a few of the chips inside? Secondhand oscilloscopes are really cheap these days (I bought mine for a tenner).

However, while we are on the subject of oscilloscopes, I found this one the other day;

http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/Default.aspx?tabid=30&ProductID=2418

dead cute eh?


well i haven't figure out all those chips but i think all can be substituted -whit newer versions and im not even sure if im going to build the tele-scope. my AVU- has still some things to be done

if someone is building the tele-scope here are the ICs Descriptions for substitutes
74HCT00 = Quad 2-input NAND gate
74HCT04 = Hex inverter
74HCT4040 = 12-stage binary ripple counter
SAA1043 = Universal sync generator
74HCT541 = Octal buffer/line driver; 3-state
74HCT4075 = High Speed CMOS Logic Triple 3-Input OR Gate
HM0-6116-2 = 2K X 8 GENERAL PURPOSE CMOS SRAM
74HCT74 = Dual D-type flip-flop with set and reset; positive-edge trigger
74HCT688 = 8-bit magnitude comparator
74HCT02 = Quad 2-input NOR gate
74HCT4024 = 7-stage binary ripple counter
74LS90 = Decade counter; divide-by-twelve counter; 4-bit binary counter
ZN439 = A/D converter

yeah- secondhand O-scopes are great if you find one.

the GBDSO is a real cutie!

if you don´t want to pay £103.00 here are the PCB-layouts and instructions to make GBDSO (GameBoy Digital Sampling Oscilloscope) PDF (needs some SMD skills) you still have to order the EPROM chip from Elektor Electronics (£13.60) the pcb is also available for £8 . . .

but lets continue on this DIY oscilloscope talk by adding this LED-matrix oscilloscope schematic

dnny
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I'll be darned. What will they think of next
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hihi, this is something I did when some 15 years of age. Connect the vertical connections of the deflection coils to the output of a small amp and turn the coils 90 degrees. Instant scope.

I was aware of the hazards and some experienced older fellow was looking over my shoulder when discharging the high anode voltage. Luckily I never got fried.

Around that time I did get quite a blow from a tube radio though. Luckily the radio fell from my hands as I was paralized by the high voltage. Have been very, very, very careful ever since.

As one can not depend on luck when messing around with high voltages.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Experimenters who have been electrocuted while bending TV sets rarely post their stories on a forum... Crying or Very sad

All the rest of us have some shocking tales. Twisted Evil

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dnny



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

update of my philips TX :

the thing that happened to my Philips TX is that i tried to get the most of it and i used a random coil i savaged from some "i don´t remember what".

so i connected the coil lets say it was 50mH to the points of horizontal and horizontal ground of the Deflection Circuit(Board) - and wow it was cosmic - the beam was so bright - it was just like looking to sun. well i realized that the unit heated a lot - so i attached two ventilators . . . and i took it to "koneisto" ( The Festival For Electronic Music in Helsinki) it was in stage whit Aavikko. it lasted one hour all most the whole gig and died of over heating Sad but i have to say that no TV has ever be so bright! all the time it looked that it will explode any minute Smile

this is the setup what i did -
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

so i have been looking for the next TV (victim) to my experiments -
and i got now a correct size coil from the broken Philips TX

and meanwhile Censtron has made their first color vessel:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Quote:
We just finished making the first Color Wave Vessel, with it you can now make the visualizations any color from invisible to white. Check out the auction for more information.



take care
daniel

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destroyifyer



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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh, sweet, totally awesome. impressive stuff


yay
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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

my Friend gave me a old soviet travel-TV that was not working but, it could display the usual noise. so i did the things described in this topic - but whit a 2mm pinjack -patch panel and speakon connector - so i can connect straight to my amp.
here are some pictures:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
not much space inside so i removed the speaker


the patch panel made of perspex:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

the whole unit:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


this video shows the beauty of electron beam bouncing whit music

sorry about the quality Sad but you get the picture

daniel

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it would really look cool on stage Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
it would really look cool on stage Very Happy


yeah. i will try to get it to stage, if not it will nicely fit between my light console and mixer. - - - but my "wannabe"-scope is so lame when you see these teslas Zap >
Tesla coil music

will this be my next project? Shocked (there should be emoticon for electric shock)

this project also looks nice
> Making a Hard Drive Laser Oscilloscope
but then you would need to have a powerfull laser... hmm... power laser and eyes ... maybe not so good idea after all cyclops

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi dnny
Great!
very cool TV! Cool
Do you know if is it possible to modify that little b/w portable TV? Even in these there is the danger of elect shock? Rolling Eyes
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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

balance wrote:

Do you know if is it possible to modify that little b/w portable TV?


if it's a CRT (cathode-ray tube) type of TV then it's possible - but is if it's LCD or other flat type then it´s not.

so the older the TV you have. the better Smile

Exclamation and if you decide to do this project don't add the extra coil/yoke for the extra bright beam. it will fry you TV Exclamation

read all the warnings and safety instructions and wear rubber gloves!
and if you have any droughts just ask before doing Wink

thanks.
and sorry if you feel that im over protective - i just don´t want that some of you get fryed because of my instructions

daniel

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you very much for WARNINGS. Wink

I would make it.....I'm very fascinated by circuit bending TV ....but at the same time I'm afraid Embarassed.I think this should be make only by expert people like you who know what is to do.

I'll wait for your next cool thing Very Happy
go dnny go! cheers
bye

-balance-
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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks balance

balance wrote:
I think this should be make only by expert people like you who know what is to do.

I'm not an expert i just like experimenting - nowadays I'm coming more careful - specially after that "x-ray"-day Smile and few other shocks that i got when working whit dimmers and strobes... but you can never be too careful and on the other hand if you scare too much you can never do anything - because the danger lurks everywhere Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HI dnny! great bending!

just one question:

how do you connect the ten jacks on the patch panel?
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