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 Forum index » Discussion » Diversity in electro-music
Anything but sexist/feminist topics
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bernat



Joined: May 18, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Anything but sexist/feminist topics
Subject description: Is this unavoidable when discussing women in electro-music?
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Is it possible to talk about women in electro without issues of sexism and feminism coming up? Let's give it the old boyscout try (...) to talk about what there is to talk about (....) that doesn't involve misogyny or the lack thereof. I suspect it's unavoidable, but let's start some more topics that don't simply deal with this.

1. female vocals: style, versatility, limitations, processing

2. style: is there a trend in how women in electro dress distinct from men? Examples: androgyny, eccentric/froufy, sexual (e.g. Peaches).

...

Last edited by bernat on Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bbinkovitz



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

style like style of dress?

of course we can't ignore style of music. is there a female perspective on electro-music?

from my limited observations, i would say vocal looping such as amy x neuburg or imogen heap is a more or less "female" sub-genre of electro-music. i've heard of men using this type of looping with guitar and whatnot, and of course there's the piece steve wrote for ashley to play at electro07 that uses similar looping for viola, but i don't know of any men who perform/compose vocal looping like that.
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bernat



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually, there was a guy at electro this year that did that. He did a sort of operatic thing.
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bernat



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
style like style of dress?


Yeah, sorry. I mean staged sartorial style.

Quote:

of course we can't ignore style of music. is there a female perspective on electro-music?


A female perspective on electro-music? I'm not sure what you mean.

A female perpective in electro-music? I thought about suggesting that but didn't know quite how to phrase it. It does seem that female lyrics express distinctly "female" topics. Love and social commentary and all that.
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bbinkovitz



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bernat wrote:

A female perspective on electro-music? I'm not sure what you mean.

A female perpective in electro-music? I thought about suggesting that but didn't know quite how to phrase it. It does seem that female lyrics express distinctly "female" topics. Love and social commentary and all that.


right. but women, as a group with separate challenges and roles in society than men, often have a separate creative style or perspective that is then characterized as "feminine" and pigeonholed. (why do we never hear about "masculine" writing or art as a deviation from the norm? where are the guerilla girls when you need them?)
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bernat



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe it's easier for men to cover light, genderless topics like aliens and outer space because their gender isn't as much of a source of stuggle. Women in electro seem to express more desperation.

But that's just my totally biased, unsubstantiated impression.
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bbinkovitz



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bernat wrote:
Maybe it's easier for men to cover light, genderless topics like aliens and outer space because their gender isn't as much of a source of stuggle. Women in electro seem to express more desperation.

But that's just my totally biased, unsubstantiated impression.


i think this whole forum would be better if more people had still been there sunday night to see you sing about the glass ceiling and ladies' night in a wedding dress and tiara.
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smokris



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:48 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbinkovitz wrote:
i don't know of any men who perform/compose vocal looping like that.


A few people/concept who/that come(s) to mind initially:

  • Medieval Motets --- basically taking a bunch of humans and using them as isorhythmic sequencers to loop Gregorian chant with altered lyrics. Typically composed and performed by men.
  • Steve Reich --- way back in the stone ages, he kinda invented looping with (male) voices. See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Gonna_Rain.
  • Bobby McFerrin --- he's produced quite a collection of virtuosic vocal multitrack works (besides the perennial "Don't Worry, Be Happy").
  • Kid Beyond --- live-looping beatboxing e.g., http://youtube.com/watch?v=0vPVOGcY4II (his glissandos and tall harmonies distinctly remind me of Amy X, actually)
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bernat



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bump
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bbinkovitz



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

smokris wrote:
bbinkovitz wrote:
i don't know of any men who perform/compose vocal looping like that.


A few people/concept who/that come(s) to mind initially:

  • Medieval Motets --- basically taking a bunch of humans and using them as isorhythmic sequencers to loop Gregorian chant with altered lyrics. Typically composed and performed by men.
  • Steve Reich --- way back in the stone ages, he kinda invented looping with (male) voices. See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Gonna_Rain.
  • Bobby McFerrin --- he's produced quite a collection of virtuosic vocal multitrack works (besides the perennial "Don't Worry, Be Happy").
  • Kid Beyond --- live-looping beatboxing e.g., http://youtube.com/watch?v=0vPVOGcY4II (his glissandos and tall harmonies distinctly remind me of Amy X, actually)


oic.
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smokris



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbinkovitz wrote:
i don't know of any men who perform/compose vocal looping like that.


Additionally, from my "interestingly peculiar and yet still enjoyably listenable male vocal stuff" list, though deviating a bit more from "looping":

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbinkovitz wrote:
oic.


Question

Code:
OIC   Office of Independent Council
OIC   Officer In Charge
OIC   Oh I See
OIC   FCC Office of International Communications
OIC   Offer In Compromise
OIC   Office of Institutional Coordination
OIC   Office of Internal Communications
OIC   Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
OIC   Officemate International Corp
OIC   Oil Importing Country
OIC   Oil Industry Commission
OIc   Old Icelandic (linguistics)
OIC   Operational Issues and Criteria
OIC   Operator Instruction Chart
OIC   Optical Imaging Center
OIC   Opus International Communications, Inc
OIC   Oracle Incentive Compensation
OIC   Oral Interpreting Certificate
OIC   Orbital Imaging Corporation
OIC   Orchid Identification Center (Marie Selby Botanical Gardens)
OIC   Order Isolation Control
OIC   Organization of the Islamic Conference
OIC   Organizational Identity Construction
OIC   Oriental Insurance Corporation (India)
OIC   Orkney Islands Council
OIC   Osteogenesis Imperfecta Congenita
OIC   Other Industrialized Countries
OIC   Overissue Crew


# 3 I guess ?

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
bbinkovitz wrote:
oic.


Question

OIC Office of Independent Council
OIC Officer In Charge
OIC Oh I See


# 3 I guess ?


'See' doesn't start with a 'C' Idea

Ahh I get it. Like 'texting' someone? Oh please don't start writing like that!!

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bbinkovitz



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i thought "oic" was standard internet message board jargon?

anyway, i think this thread title is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

however, since it fits under the heading of "not especially feminist", here's some music i made within a week of first experimenting with computer music (made in renoise): http://www.myspace.com/skippyvodka

since then i've been learning a lot, starting many projects, and finishing few (on my own that is. i've been collaborating with bernat and smokris and others on project ruori stuff.) someday i'll finish all the things i've been starting recently.
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bernat



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

smokris wrote:
[*]Karl Bartos's "Esperanto" album (1993) contains a lot of interesting male-voice-looping/manipulation work.


The first YouTube hit for Karl Bartos is a video for "I'm the message". The description begins with: "Karl Bartos, former member of world´s most famous robot band Kraftwerk.." and ends with "Buy this album. I suppose you´ll like it! (more)"

Thought you would appreciate.
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smokris



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bernat wrote:
The first YouTube hit for Karl Bartos is a video for "I'm the message". The description begins with: "Karl Bartos, former member of world´s most famous robot band Kraftwerk.." and ends with "Buy this album. I suppose you´ll like it! (more)"


Speaking as the world's foremost expert on Karl Bartos, I didn't really like his "Communication" album nearly as much as "Esperanto" --- though the "I'm the Message" music video is astounding. I think I would have liked it a lot more had he published it in unmastered form (rather than the hypercompressed version that was published).

I mean, seriously. This is what "The Camera" looks like:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

...and here's what the CD re-release of "Das Modell" (should we start a thread on that song?) looks like:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Sigh.

Also I hold the following controversial opinion (since this is the subforum for such things): I really like what he did for Kraftwerk while he worked for them. I'm not sure that there exists more perfect (ahem.) music than that performed by the quartet in their 1981 world tour. Particularly Bartos's synth bass.

So, you know where to find me when I perfect that time machine I've been working on.
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smokris



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:41 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bernat wrote:
The first YouTube hit for Karl Bartos is a video


NO no no.

Try this one: http://youtube.com/watch?v=l-YPP75WR9o (from Esperanto)
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bernat wrote:
[
A female perpective in electro-music? I thought about suggesting that but didn't know quite how to phrase it. It does seem that female lyrics express distinctly "female" topics. Love and social commentary and all that.


I'm bored so I'm commenting on old threads. Female perspective on electro? Like problems we encounter? Yeah, we can't lift as much of that heavy equipment. Lyrics?? Nahhh....the beauty of ambient/space music is it has no lyrics!!! Love? Hahahah.... whether you're a guy or a girl, the whole point of getting obsessed with music is as a Sublimator, to take the place of having a social life, love life, dates & all that crap we don't have. Wink

I played my new Roland synth last nite for about 3 hours. It was way more fun than thinking about how I didn't have a date & wasn't likely to ever have one. Confused

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

laura woodswalker wrote:
It was way more fun than thinking about how I didn't have a date & wasn't likely to ever have one. Confused


Laughing such thinking is dangerous, it leads to hyperventilation and worse. Better to play with Roland then Wink

A pic I took some days ago :


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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
laura woodswalker wrote:
It was way more fun than thinking about how I didn't have a date & wasn't likely to ever have one. Confused


Laughing such thinking is dangerous, it leads to hyperventilation and worse. Better to play with Roland then Wink

A pic I took some days ago :


Hey, that was ME... you were lurking outside my window! Laughing

As to this quote "Maybe it's easier for men to cover light, genderless topics like aliens and outer space"

Hey, I'm a science fiction reading lady who loves aliens & outer space!! Who says aliens are genderless?????

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deknow



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Lyrics?? Nahhh....the beauty of ambient/space music is it has no lyrics!!!


hmm, if you are under this impression, you need to listen to amy x neuburg playing with (what was i think at the time) the amaranth signal.

...try to get mark (Mohoyoho is his user name here) to send you an mp3....i don't see it online anymore.

i've also found good "lyrics" through some FU School techniques:
1. weird records played through effects ("teach your bird to talk", a business typing course on vinyl, motivational sales records from the 50's, etc).

2. run speech recognition software to transcribe the news or a movie....it will do a very lousy job, but is great when played back with a speech synthesizer.

3. carry a microcassette or digital recorder...don't miss another "microcassette moment"

deknow
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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
Quote:
Lyrics?? Nahhh....the beauty of ambient/space music is it has no lyrics!!!

i've also found good "lyrics" through some FU School techniques:

Also the old Williams Burroughs cut-move-paste technique (from well before computer cut & paste) on text. It worked well on my daughter's spoken words on the piece at http://www.virb.com/dparson (11:30 into the piece), moving her spoken samples around at the phrase, word & phoneme levels! I did find that the initial writing had to be good -- my attempt to write some response phrases for call-and-response structuring of her work failed because my words were not good, so I abandoned that for this piece, and stuck to instrumental & computer.

When she & I discussed this last month when I played it for her, she said that she uses a lot of parallel structure in her writing, a facet that really lends itself to restructuring, even dynamic restructuring in real time.

Also, when I talked to my son in audio school in Canada last week, he was telling me about a lab where they were copy-and-pasting phonemes to clean up spoken samples with errors. Suddenly the whole family is into phoneme editting.

There's been a lot of computer work in natural language grammars, both for recognition and generation, that could be brought to bear on electro lyrics, including real time restructuring. Haven't seen much evidence of that. More time, need more time!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbinkovitz wrote:
right. but women, as a group with separate challenges and roles in society than men, often have a separate creative style or perspective that is then characterized as "feminine" and pigeonholed. (why do we never hear about "masculine" writing or art as a deviation from the norm? where are the guerilla girls when you need them?)


I think you don't hear about "masculine" art, because socially speaking (in America), men are pigeonholed as not being in to art. Men get pigeonholed with words like testosterone (have you ever heard that used in a positive connotation? or is it always preceded by "too much"?) They also get pigeonholed (exclusively, rather than inclusively) with words like gay, or faggot. There's nothing quite like being called a bundle of sticks Smile

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am sorry but did not undesrtood exactly what does this topic mean...

I mean: in every music can sing or play as men as women...

why is this subject separated from men music?
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"Men Music"??

Now there's a thought! Laughing

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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