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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Lunetta Pulse/Trigger/Gate Delay
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nathanxl



Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Wa

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:59 am    Post subject: Lunetta Pulse/Trigger/Gate Delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi.
I have a need to variably (prefferably with a pot) delay a pulse (a gate from a 4024 shift register) from about a milisecond up to maybe 2seconds long.
Basically I have the 4024 outputs going through gate to trigger circuits and then Im using the triggers to drive small motors that pluck strings... Now I want to be able to dampen the strings with solenoids just after they are plucked...
Im sure there is a simple Lunetta solution to this that maybe uses one chip and a few other components.
Do any of you gurus have experience with this kind of circuit?
Im aware I will need to beef things up to drive the solenoids its just the delay part that has this noob baffled.
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PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 1522
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 319

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

first thing that came to mind was a 555 in monostable mode but that just changes the length of the pulse, maybe if you invert it
add some extra logic that might be usefull.

something with a shiftregister ? clk sets delay time, but you would need a flip flop or something at the data input if the pulse
is shorter then a CLK cycle. You could use some logic to control the time digitally too by setting the number of places it shifts.
(a mux that selects where you take the pulse out)

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Last edited by PHOBoS on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 1522
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 319

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: PHOBoS - Pulse Delay schematic
Subject description: 1 NAND to delay them all
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I couldn't let it rest so I tried something. I wanted to make it with only 1 IC and managed to get it working with a CD4093 Cool

U1c and U1d form a S/R flip flop which 'captures' the pulse. Because it works on active low levels there's an extra transistor
inverter at the input. So when the "Pulse In"- get's a high signal U1d's output becomes high and stays high even when the
input is low again. The 4.7uF capacitor is (slowly) charged through the 500K pot until it reaches the treshold level
of U1a. When this happens the output of U1a will become low (inverted by U1b for the pulse out) which will then (slowly)
discharge the 1uF capacitor (500K) untill it drops below the treshold level of U1c. Which will reset the flip flop.
The 4.7uF cap is now quickly discharged through the diode, the output of U1a become high again and the 1uF is quickly
charged.

If the pulse input is still high after the cycle ends the pulse out will also stay high untill the input becomes low again.


PHOBoS - Pulse Delay.gif
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PHOBoS - Pulse Delay.gif



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nathanxl



Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Wa

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OMG PHOBoS, that is fantastic. I knew this was the right place to get an answer.
Great work.
Im away from the "Lab" for the next few days so cannot put this together myself ATM but I thankyou from the bottom of my heart.
I look forward to getting this up and running. Just on first glance, once I have decided on the desired Pulse length of this circuit would I be able to switch out the pot with a resistor permanently or will this value always need adjustment? Because this circuit is going on an (already complicated) instrument that I use in a live performance situation I like the idea of having just one pot to adjust the delay time of the pulse... I get confused easily when on stage.
WOW, cant wait to get back in the shed.
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PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you're very welcome Very Happy
a pulse delay was something I have been thinking about before, just hadn't taken the time yet to come up with a circuit.
so I'm glad you asked. And yes you can of course replace the pot with a resistor. You could even leave out the pot/diode/cap
attached to pin 8 alltogether and just connect it directly to pin 3. But then the pulse might be too short.
You could also leave out the LED's but I think the active LED is very usefull.

I'm looking forward to see it added to your amazing sculpture Cool

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nathanxl



Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Wa

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not yet a finished module as I needed it working quickly, just on breadboard at the moment.
Still some noise/false triggering issues but you get the idea.
I love this module, I may make the delay time CV to add even more craziness.
Sounds a lil' "bluegrassy" towards the end!

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dougseidel



Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 63
Location: NJ

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

totally cool! I really love this stuff you are making.
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PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thumright

with all the LED's it probably looks great in the dark, which got me thinking. you should be able to get some nice visual effects if you light up the strings
with some strobe lights (bright LED's). If they are tuned to a fixed frequency you can just dial in the correct flash rate. Not sure if it would be really visible
though. here's an example:


some lights that light up the strings when they are plucked (until dampened) would be nice anyway, but maybe you already have that. Cool


edit: removed some spilleng orrers Embarassed

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Last edited by PHOBoS on Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:49 am; edited 2 times in total
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analog_backlash



Joined: Sep 04, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: Aldershot, UK
Audio files: 21

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
thumright

with all the LED's it probably looks great in the dark, which got me thinking. you should be able to get some nice visual effects if you light up the strings
with some stobe lights (bright LED's). If they are tuned to a fixed frequency you can just dial in the correct flash rate. Not sure if it would be really visible
though.

Following on from PHOBoS' comment, you could spray paint the strings in fluorescent colours and use UV LEDs for the strobes and then turn out the lights... happy smoker Just a thought - I don't know how well it would work.

Gary
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nathanxl



Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Wa

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have had this fantastic circuit on a breadboard driving my 8string Lunetta Guitar for a few weeks now and its great. I am now starting to move it over to space wiring, freeform style... Its going to take some time as you can expect.
8gate inputs, 8delay circuits and 8outputs to relays (hidden underneath) then this goes out to the solenoids on the strings:


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nathanxl



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Im building another small Lunetta Guitar in a briefcase for a small tour in Japan next month.
It will have 12 strings and space is premium so Ive tried to keep everything compact. Here is the same circuit on perfboard for 12string dampeners.
Ive sourced some solid state relays so the only sound heard is the slight clack of the dampener arm...
I have to get back to the workshop. SO much to do.


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dougseidel



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

would love to hear the recordings of your music with these instruments etc - is anything on soundcloud or elsewhere?
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PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

good luck with the freeform wiring, I can imagine that's gonna be quite
some work Shocked your breadboards look nice too (just put it in clear
some epoxy Wink), so thanks for the nice desktop wallpapers!

o and the perf looks great aswell!

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Majonymus



Joined: Aug 22, 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So creative work, great inspiration, loved the video
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