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Thomas Henry
Joined: Mar 25, 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Southern Minnesota
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 Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject:
Pan versus Balance |
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Hello all,
I'm still pretty much a MIDI newbie who is trying to sort out what's possible with my newly built gear.
So anyway, what really is the difference between the Pan and Balance controllers in MIDI?
Many thanks,
Thomas Henry |
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seraph
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:48 am Post subject:
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CC#8 Balance (MSB) is seldom implemented in midi instruments so it is useful only if your receiving unit responds to it.
CC#10 Pan position (MSB) is much more common.
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EdisonRex
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:08 am Post subject:
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Balance pertains to the stereo output's amplitude (how much of the stereo signal is coming out the left and right channels). 90% left balance means that only 10% of the stereo signal is coming out the right channel.
Pan is the placement of a single channel voice within a stereo (L+R) field. So if you have multiple voices they can be placed within a stereo image using pan controls.
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Thomas Henry
Joined: Mar 25, 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Southern Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject:
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Thanks for the comments to both of you.
| EdisonRex wrote: | | Balance pertains to the stereo output's amplitude (how much of the stereo signal is coming out the left and right channels). 90% left balance means that only 10% of the stereo signal is coming out the right channel. |
I got that, but am still wondering about the difference in a General MIDI device. What you say suggests to me that Balance shouldn't be a channel command, but rather is device oriented and affects all channels/voices at once.
For example, in a General MIDI device, assuming I have sent Pan data of 64 to all sixteen channels (centering their outputs), if I then send Balance data of 13 for instance (10% of 127), this would spin the total balance so that 10% is Left and 90% right, for all 16 channels at once; correct?
As another example, what if I set the Balance to 10% left on Channel 1 and 20% left on Channel 2. How is this different from setting Pan to 10% on Channel 1 and 20% on Channel 2?
Again, if I'm reading you aright, Balance seems to affect all voices at once (suggesting it's not a channel command) whereas Pan is truly a channel location command. For example, if I send a Balance command to Channel 1, does this change things on Channel 2?
Or am I just being more than usually thick tonight?
Again, thanks,
Thomas Henry |
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EdisonRex
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:45 am Post subject:
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| Thomas Henry wrote: |
I got that, but am still wondering about the difference in a General MIDI device. What you say suggests to me that Balance shouldn't be a channel command, but rather is device oriented and affects all channels/voices at once.
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As Carlo mentioned, you rarely see CC 8 implemented. You see it in workstation devices sometimes. But yes, it should be global.
| Quote: |
For example, in a General MIDI device, assuming I have sent Pan data of 64 to all sixteen channels (centering their outputs), if I then send Balance data of 13 for instance (10% of 127), this would spin the total balance so that 10% is Left and 90% right, for all 16 channels at once; correct?
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Yes, correct.
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As another example, what if I set the Balance to 10% left on Channel 1 and 20% left on Channel 2. How is this different from setting Pan to 10% on Channel 1 and 20% on Channel 2?
Again, if I'm reading you aright, Balance seems to affect all voices at once (suggesting it's not a channel command) whereas Pan is truly a channel location command. For example, if I send a Balance command to Channel 1, does this change things on Channel 2?
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Balance is global and operates on the stereo outputs. Pan is per-channel and could be thought of as working on the inputs (to the internal mixer).
A home stereo receiver has a balance knob, but no pan pots. A mixing console will typically have pan pots for at least the main bus, and quite possibly for other stereo busses too, but wouldn't normally have a balance control (one could achieve balance by adjusting the levels of the left and right master fader). Perhaps that clarifies the concept.
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Or am I just being more than usually thick tonight?
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It's a subtle difference and is not well implemented, or explained, in most manuals. I'd be interested which GM devices actually implement them, and if so, is it a global controller like volume (my experience of multitimbral sources has always been that there's one global channel (configurable, but usually channel 1) which listens for global CCs and parameters.
Hope this helps.
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Thomas Henry
Joined: Mar 25, 2007
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Location: Southern Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject:
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Thank you very much for the follow up. It's all clear now.
I'm going to hook up MIDI-Ox to the GM-Voice, and also the sfz software voice and see if they respond. (Those are the only GM things I have just now. But come to think of it, I also have the SB-16 in the old 486 machine I could try).
Thanks again,
Thomas Henry |
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Scott Stites
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:12 am Post subject:
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FWIW, CC#08 on my SH-201 controls the balance level between the two VCOs on the upper tone (voice) of a patch. CC#09 controls the balance between the two VCOs on the lower tone (voice) of a patch.
CC#10 controls the pan of the output.
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Scott Stites
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:15 am Post subject:
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BTW, idlly thinking, I know at least on my SC-7, some instruments are made up of two voices (an instance of one note of these voices consumes two notes of polyphony). I wonder if balance is used to set the relative level of the two voices?
Ahhh, prolly not.
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EdisonRex
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject:
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| Scott Stites wrote: | FWIW, CC#08 on my SH-201 controls the balance level between the two VCOs on the upper tone (voice) of a patch. CC#09 controls the balance between the two VCOs on the lower tone (voice) of a patch.
CC#10 controls the pan of the output. |
Kind of like Roland, to use the CC in an unorthodox way 
I'm looking at some random manuals of mine.
My EMU Morpheus, 1993 vintage, does not implement CC08 at all. It uses CC0A for all channels (there are six channels out), you can pan any instrument (you can have up to 16 of those), out one of the 3 stereo channels, and pan them. There is no balance implementation.
The TS-12 does not implement CC08, either. It has 2 stereo output options, and pan (per instrument, there are up to 16)... but it's only got I think 32 voices, so 16 instruments was wishful thinking.
My JV-1080 also does not implement CC08. Just CC0A, and they implement it both for a Part, and for a Patch. So you can set up groups of patches for specific outputs (3 stereo outputs) and pan the different panned patches.
The EMU Procussion, unsurprisingly, behaves just like the Morpheus, but with less parameters.
Ah, but my Nord Lead 1 implements Balance (CC08) as Oscillator Mix. Maybe this was a common practice? hmm. CC0A is not defined in the Nord Lead 1's MIDI implementation chart.
The Voyager does nothing like that. Neither CC08 or CC0A are to be found. It's a monophonic instrument, despite the "stereo" outputs. I think they actually have implemented all of the mixing via unregistered controllers. I don't actually know, although my editor program does talk to it. it doesn't do panning either.
The Roland P-55 Piano Soundcanvas doesn't do CC08 either. Just CC0A.
*shrug*
Like Carlo said, it isn't used much. I am actually surprised the Nord uses it, and for the same purpose as the SH...
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