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laura woodswalker
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 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject:
What is a Nord Micro? |
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I'm the newbie who is still trying to understand what all these gadgets are. I'm asking dumb questions like "what IS this thing and what does it do?" and I hope y'all will bear with me.
So far I am learning to play keyboards on a Yamaha MM6 and recording with Cubase LE and I just learned how to record a MIDI file last week. But I have hopes of creating great music someday 
Someone is selling a Nord Micro for $450. I looked it up and read this:
"Using your own PC, you patch virtual modules together in the editing software. The modules are traditional synth building blocks like oscillators, filters, envelope generators, etc. An array of special modules like audio processors is also included. After your patch has been tweezed to your liking, it's stored in the hardware synth module, and you're good to go! Take the small and light unit with you, and 99 of your patches go along for the ride.
The unit behaves like any MIDI synth, responding to controller changes as programmed. "
I interpreting this that once you create fat sounds on your computer and load them into the Micro, it will play those sounds? Can you hook a regular 61 key keyboard up to the Micro with MIDI cables and play those fat sounds?
My main interest is how to take a mainstream, entry-level keyboard and hook it up to something that will create all those fantastic sounds like you get with a virtual synth.
Or maybe that's not possible & I should just invest in more computer memory so I can hook up my keyboard to computer MIDI and a VST and just PLAY.
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blue hell
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: | I interpreting this that once you create fat sounds on your computer and load them into the Micro, it will play those sounds? Can you hook a regular 61 key keyboard up to the Micro with MIDI cables and play those fat sounds?
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Correct, you can do that. Basically it is a sound engine modeled after a modular synthesizer. You have an editor running on a computer that is hooked up with two midi cables to the micro. With the editor you create patches that can be stored into the micro and on you computer's harddisk. With another MIDI cable you can hook up a keyboard to play the patches you made, or downloaded.
I keep a collection of nord modular links, you could have a look to see what it's all about (use the links tagged with "classic", the G2 is a more recent version).
I think $450 is a bit much ... although they are more expensive it seems in the US ... it can go for as little as €180 over here.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: |
I interpreting this that once you create fat sounds on your computer and load them into the Micro, it will play those sounds? |
Sorta kinda. What you create on your computer using those nice graphical building blocks is instructions for the Micro on *how* it is to generate "fat sounds". These then get saved in the Micro so it can generate the "fat sounds" with the computer's presence as well.
| Quote: | Can you hook a regular 61 key keyboard up to the Micro with MIDI cables and play those fat sounds?
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Yes.
| Quote: | My main interest is how to take a mainstream, entry-level keyboard and hook it up to something that will create all those fantastic sounds like you get with a virtual synth.
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Yes, it will, most of those sounds at least and probably some that would be hard on the computer as well.
| Quote: | | Or maybe that's not possible & I should just invest in more computer memory so I can hook up my keyboard to computer MIDI and a VST and just PLAY. |
That depends on what kinds of sounds you want and how much effort you are willing to invest in configuring the computer. If you want a relatively safe, relatively "fenced off" environment to learn about synthesis in and "just PLAY" with I think the Micro is a good buy. How much you'll get out of the Micro will depend a lot on how much you put into it, it's probably not a good buy if you just want fat sounds *now* without having to learn anything, the micro on the other hand will reward learning more with fatter sounds. I think I'd call it the best synth for the serious beginner in the world and it also fits in your pocket (well.... mine but I have large jackets).
Hope that helps, it's hard to pick a good instrument, I know.
Edit; x-ing posts but I think they complement eachother. Jan is right about the price but I figured this might be due to the low dollar.
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jksuperstar
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject:
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| Good points Kassen, but in the Nord Modular (NM1) archive on this site, there are some 20,000++ patches for this synth....simply crazy! You'd have plenty to learn from, start with, and build from using that archive. |
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laura woodswalker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| Kassen wrote: | | If you want a relatively safe, relatively "fenced off" environment to learn about synthesis in and "just PLAY" with I think the Micro is a good buy. |
I'm not sure if it's still being manufactured... the only places I'm finding them are used sources.
| Quote: |
Hope that helps, it's hard to pick a good instrument, I know. |
It sure is, especially when you're not sure what any of them do. 
When I was shopping for keyboards I had a hard time choosing between the simple keyboard that was easy to learn, vs. the one with a million dials & crazy sounds. ("LFO?? Duhh...WHat's THAT??" ) I thought the million dials would just distract me as I am still practicing piano chords...
on the other hand, I want to be able to play AND make weird sounds someday. And I'd like to be able to take the sounds with me & not be totally tied to a computer. Like who knows, I might want to play weird sounds at a jam session. I spoze you can do that with a 'rack module' but those things are $1000.
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laura woodswalker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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Well the big question is... if it's discontinued, what's the NEW gadget that replaces it??? Please tell me there is a replacement (under $500)...
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Wout Blommers
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: | | ... Please tell me there is a replacement (under $500)... |
Why not try the bigger one in a smaller package, specially if you have no experiences with modular synthesis: the G2 Demo. It's only one Voice (so is the Micro using most sounds in the archive) and it is for free...
http://www.clavia.se/main.asp?tm=Products&clpm=Nord_Modular_G2
and look for 'Try it Today!'
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Kassen
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: |
I'm not sure if it's still being manufactured... the only places I'm finding them are used sources. |
Oh, I'm sure it's no longer manufactured, bit I don't see how that would be a problem
| Quote: |
When I was shopping for keyboards I had a hard time choosing between the simple keyboard that was easy to learn, vs. the one with a million dials & crazy sounds. ("LFO?? Duhh...WHat's THAT??" ) I thought the million dials would just distract me as I am still practicing piano chords...
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Fortunately MIDI allows you to separately pick what keyboard you like to play on and what synth you like to make your sounds with. As for words like "LFO", Wikipedia will be able to tell you, don't let yourself be overwhelmed, just look up every word you don't know, there aren't *that* many of those words that are likely to end up in keyboard brochures.
| Quote: | | on the other hand, I want to be able to play AND make weird sounds someday. And I'd like to be able to take the sounds with me & not be totally tied to a computer. Like who knows, I might want to play weird sounds at a jam session. |
Micro Nord
| Quote: | | I spoze you can do that with a 'rack module' but those things are $1000. |
I'm not really sure what "rack module" you mean.
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laura woodswalker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| Kassen wrote: | | laura woodswalker wrote: |
I'm not sure if it's still being manufactured... the only places I'm finding them are used sources. |
Oh, I'm sure it's no longer manufactured, bit I don't see how that would be a problem |
It's a problem because I can't get one!!
I found a seller on craigslist, but he lives far away. Buying from individual sellers is risky. I prefer to buy equipment new, esp. something complex like electronix.
If they aren't making it, what new stuff would do the same thing?
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blue hell
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: | | If they aren't making it, what new stuff would do the same thing? |
Nord Modular G2 engine, a bit more expensive though, but it does more as well.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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laura woodswalker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | laura woodswalker wrote: | | If they aren't making it, what new stuff would do the same thing? |
Nord Modular G2 engine, a bit more expensive though, but it does more as well. |
Thanks. I looked it up. Too pricey for me. 
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laura woodswalker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: | | Blue Hell wrote: | | laura woodswalker wrote: | | If they aren't making it, what new stuff would do the same thing? |
Nord Modular G2 engine, a bit more expensive though, but it does more as well. |
Thanks. I looked it up. Too pricey for me. |
How about the Novation XioSynth 25? Does this also do the same thing?
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blue hell
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: | | How about the Novation XioSynth 25? Does this also do the same thing? |
The Nord Modular synths are modular synthesizers, the novation seems to have a fixed architecture.
A modular synth is a synth in which sound making and sound processing parts are available as modules. The modules can be freely connected to make and process sound to your likings.
When a synth is not modular it has a more fixed architecture, meaning that it has a fixed set of sound generators and sound treaters that can not be freely configured. Usually some flexibility is present in that some signals can be routed to selected targets.
So a modular synth leaves the sound designer more free in how to make a sound, but it takes more time to learn one's way on it as well.
When you want to learn more about modular synths it would be a good idea to have a look at the Clavia G2 demo program. This is an emulation of the G2 synth that runs without the hardware box on your PC. There are a lot of online resources to help you find your way on the Clavia synths and a lot of users hang out on electro-music.com.
Here are some links and the demo software can be found here.
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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cappy2112
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: | | Kassen wrote: | | laura woodswalker wrote: |
I'm not sure if it's still being manufactured... the only places I'm finding them are used sources. |
Oh, I'm sure it's no longer manufactured, bit I don't see how that would be a problem |
It's a problem because I can't get one!!
I found a seller on craigslist, but he lives far away. Buying from individual sellers is risky. I prefer to buy equipment new, esp. something complex like electronix.
If they aren't making it, what new stuff would do the same thing? |
Micro modulars show up somewhat frequently on ebay, but usually have a
pretty active bidding to get them. The G2 is more powerful, but more expensive, but may be a better investment in you plan to keep it for several years.
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egw
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:42 am Post subject:
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If you're looking for a small, portable box with some knobs that you can throw into a bag, bring to a jam session and make some weird noises, there is nothing that can compare to the micro. The G2 engine is not stand-alone and is more expensive. You could configure a small laptop to do something similar, but that only works if you want to make your music with software on a laptop. You could probably find an older one and use some free software, for around the same price as the micro. Perhaps more of a learning curve, and less satisfying unless you get some kind of midi controller/knob box to go with it.
Learning to play keyboards, and learning synthesis are two completely different things. You don't necessarily need to learn one before you can start the other. The Nord Modulars are the best tools I have seen for learning synthesis - the interface is logical and intuitive, they can do all the typical modular synthesis functions, without the limitations of hardware (not enough modules of a given type, can't save patches, etc.)
I agree with the suggestion to try out the demo software - it's free so no risk, and you can see if the paradigm suits you.
The micro is somewhat limited (polyphony) compared to the full Nord Modulars, and to the G2s (reverbs and delays, midi controls, better logic functions). But it is a great little synth, very flexible and portable, sounds fantastic and not very expensive. It should hold it's value as there is nothing else quite like it.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:40 am Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| cappy2112 wrote: | | The G2 is more powerful, but more expensive, but may be a better investment in you plan to keep it for several years. |
Hmmmmm, I really don't know about that. So far it looks like the NM/Micro are standing the test of time better then the G2, thanks to the G2's proprietary USB interface.
If I had to bet I'd bet on the NM being easier to use with whatever the dominant PC platform will be in 10 years.
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laura woodswalker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:52 am Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| Kassen wrote: | | cappy2112 wrote: | | The G2 is more powerful, but more expensive, but may be a better investment in you plan to keep it for several years. |
Hmmmmm, I really don't know about that. So far it looks like the NM/Micro are standing the test of time better then the G2, thanks to the G2's proprietary USB interface.
If I had to bet I'd bet on the NM being easier to use with whatever the dominant PC platform will be in 10 years. |
The NM looks pretty cool but for the same price others have recommended I get a "real" synth like the 37 key Alesis Micron.
I'm going to keep a lookout for used stuff. I really don't need the entire synth... just some effects.
Although I liked the youtube video of the Alesis Micron... you could create your own phrases/arps on the fly... keep looping them while playing along w/yourself on another synth. Neat concept!
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Kassen
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:14 am Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: |
The NM looks pretty cool but for the same price others have recommended I get a "real" synth like the 37 key Alesis Micron. |
Well, get whatever you like best but if that's the debate I'm left wondering what "real" means here
| Quote: | | Although I liked the youtube video of the Alesis Micron... you could create your own phrases/arps on the fly... keep looping them while playing along w/yourself on another synth. Neat concept! |
You do realise that you could implement a variation on this feature on the Micro as well?
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blue hell
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:15 am Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| laura woodswalker wrote: | The NM looks pretty cool but for the same price others have recommended I get a "real" synth like the 37 key Alesis Micron.
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 what makes a synth "real", the keyboard?
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Kassen
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:41 am Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| Blue Hell wrote: |
what makes a synth "real", the keyboard? |
I read in a advertising booklet of one of the larger music stores that "the main difference between a synthesiser and a keyboard is that a keyboard also has build in rhythms".
Sad but true.
http://tomayko.com/weblog/2006/09/11/that-dilbert-cartoon
"Here's a nickel, kid, go get yourself a real synthesiser"
;¬)
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laura woodswalker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:51 am Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | laura woodswalker wrote: | The NM looks pretty cool but for the same price others have recommended I get a "real" synth like the 37 key Alesis Micron.
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what makes a synth "real", the keyboard? |
Ha ha.... guess so!
The keyboard is what makes it something you can PLAY, just like a piano. As opposed to "something you can tweak and apply effects to something ELSE that you play. " 
Hey, I'm just a Noob.
Now if you can afford something that you can tweak OR play, that would be great.
I was looking at that Roland model (I forget the number). It was $595 just like the keybd I bought... but it looks like a NASA command module, not a musical instrument. It is just too intimidating for someone who wants to learn to play, as aside from twirling knobs all day. 
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laura woodswalker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:57 am Post subject:
Re: What is a Nord Micro? |
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| Kassen wrote: |
You do realise that you could implement a variation on this feature on the Micro as well? |
The only way I could learn exactly what it does is to look at the manual online. wonder if that's available...
I was able to read the Alesis Micron manual so I understand a lot more about it. Manuals are great!
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blue hell
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:04 am Post subject:
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Right the keyboard, OK you can always plug in an external keyboard of course.
Here is the manual.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:11 am Post subject:
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Laura; the Micro's manual is online at clavia.se it's the same manual as the Nord Modular's, it's free and quite well written but getting to grips with the material will still take some time and persistence.
Also; as I said before, if you have a keyboard you like already and it has MIDI you can use that as a keyboard to play any synth that has MIDI. Personally I think that if we consider money and space it's a good idea it have a single keyboard you like (if you like keyboards....) and use this to control several synths you like the sound of, buying those in keyboard-less "rack" or "tabletop" models.
More importantly; intimidation is all in your mind. Really.
Maybe I should make that bold and in a larger size
intimidation is all in your mind.
Those modern Roland's are build to look impressive yet function in very simple ways. Roland, btw, is notorious for very bad manuals.
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laura woodswalker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:01 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | Personally I think that if we consider money and space it's a good idea it have a single keyboard you like (if you like keyboards....) and use this to control several synths you like the sound of, buying those in keyboard-less "rack" or "tabletop" models. |
Well, the 'racks' seem to be about $1000. Although I saw a yamaha rack on craigslist for $500.
But a rack wouldn't really have realtime controls, would it?
Speaking of bargains...I saw a Korg x50 for $300. Damn! If that was a small unit instead of a fullsize keyboard I'd really be tempted to buy it! It's cheaper than the Nord Micro & probably does the same things. or not?
But I'd get a hairy eyeball from my family if I showed up with a 2nd keyboard, doncha know 
Anyone used a Korg x50? the review say the sounds are bad but the effects are great. Well I love the sounds on my keybd but the effects are minimal. So maybe it's a match!
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