Property is Theft

play · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:44 pm Post subject: Property is Theft

I think this is relevant to the current discussions about copyright laws which are but symptoms of a crumbling paradigm:
http://dhm.best.vwh.net/archives/proudhon-property-is-theft.html

I'll try and find an opposing argument.

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject:

Proudhon is extremely entertaining, but I personally think that his writings are also extremely dated. That said I also find marx to be way out there with the dinosaurs. However, this one is a jolly good read and it is pretty interesting if you like the stuff by Marx and others: RICARD'S METHOD RE-EXAMINED: MARX VS. RICARDO ON Method by professor Takahisa Oishi.

play · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:28 pm Post subject:

I agree with you elektro. he just happened to come up in the other discussion.

I skimmed this Takahisha thing and it just sounded like quibling. But I'm not exactly an economist.

There is a distinct lack of contemporary literature discussing the commodification of every aspect of our lives. Where'd all the smart people go? Did they get bought by the advertising companies or something?

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:51 pm Post subject:

A big part of my history and economic history books are still in storage. I cannot make a list now. However, there is a lot of soft and silly feelgood stuff that discusses this right now. Naomi Klein did that No Logo book.. and I guess that one is symptomatic. A lot of the current academic trends on the subject aren´t really picking up the neoradical 60s trend of going for the "commodification of every aspect of our lives" stuff. instead they are going for a rewrite of the modern history .

Modern political history is being rewritten partly based on the analysis of fascism. The immediate postwar understanding of fascism obscured a lot of the huge issues that actually caused world war one, the spanish civil war etc etc. The cold war did not improve matters much but a lot of interesting literature was published.

A current and readable book on fascism is "The Anatomy of Fascism" by Robert O. Paxton. It is not written by an economist so you will find it interesting. Very Happy

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:10 pm Post subject:

I always get back to the books by Toynbee. I have a connection to this guy.. a remote but interesting one.. That one will remain secret for now.

You might find his "A Study of History" a great read. 12 volumes..
http://www.malaspina.com/site/person_1138.asp

play · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject:

Sounds like a case of "the Truth" which was an illustration of a guy with a mullet and a barcode on his forehead which was distributed in many forms: buttons, signs, t-shirts. A contrived mystery.

The city-beat article is great: http://www.citybeat.com/2001-08-02/news.shtml

Some excerpts:

"I've seen them," Maddock said. "They say different weird things. I have no idea what they are."

Do the signs pose any public hazard or threat?

"No," Turner said. "People write all kinds of things out there -- graffiti and that kind of thing. A lot of it's personal meaning, but we don't think it was any kind of threat. We'd look at it if there was an outright threat, but it's just some weird, strange saying."

"I went down there and looked at them," Berens said. "I asked around and no one seemed to know anything about them. I talked to one of our engineers for the downtown area. He originally thought that they were something the Performing Arts Center had done."

Dave Rupe, supervisor of engineering, summed it up for many observers.

"I don't know what you're talking about," he said.

People need mystery in their lives and I guess sometimes it takes someone making a weird sign to remind them how good it feels to be completely mystified.

speaking of which:
http://www.davidblaine.com/

where are we again?

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject:

That City beat article is great. I love this one:

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:42 pm Post subject:

That Blaine thingie... the concept of the progress of solitary confinement.. Shocked

Oskar · Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway

Funny that; I hadn't discovered this thread until last night, just as I was headed out the door, so my Jean Genet comments in the "sampling" thread were naturally unconnected. I did my stint as a "civilian duty" - what Norwegian conscientuous objectors do instead of military servic. - we still have draft - as among other things a social secretary in a prison. I've also been working for some time as a part-time teacher at a scholl for "prison leavers." Quite a few of cons I worked with twenty years ago, and the ex-cons I work with now rationalize crime by quoting, or MIS-quoting Jean Genet. It does rankle. Anyway, I shall look into that Proudhon stuff, but my intellectual chops are not that sharp anymore. I may be quite some time wading through it. Embarassed

play · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:26 am Post subject:

it's mostly just entertaining. it's true that a lot of anarchist literature, particularly proudhon is taken out of context or used to justify mayhem. What a joke the "anarchist" movements of today are. Anarcho-capitalists? Leftist-anarchists? What's next? Anarcho-bankers?