price of modern times analogue synthesizers and DIY

[cagnalerano]

Hi! Just a question: how comes the Minimoog Voyager costs 3000$ when it is mostly a replica of 40years-old circuits? And, from a more general point of view, as I'm about to build me a synth copying the schematics of the minimoog, I'm asking the following: have you ever built a complete synth? how much did it cost? furthermore: why do they(everyone, not only moog itself)sell those lovely NEW analogue monophonics synth for so much money?

[Uncle Krunkus]

[andrewF]

[Peake]

The Minimoog Service manual goes into great detail regarding the theory and parts types and values involved... I don't remember if the PCBs are one- or two-sided, but if they're one-sided, you could generate new ones from scans of the trace side alone. It's quite well documented.

I believe there are SG3821 in there, and the E112 or E101 trannie, which aren't terribly easy to find. There may be "J" substitutes. The 1N821 in the power supply can be had inexpensively at questcomp.com but I've already bought several from them ($5.00 per line item, so I have a few too many, PM me if you are serious and I'll send you one gratis, but then let me know if you find some cheap SG3821).

Business states that you should charge three times what it cost you to make whatever it is that you are going to sell. This includes manpower, resources, time on everyone's part, and the risk of doing all of that in hope of making enough to continue as long as you wish. The parts alone aren't extremely expensive; the expertise and most importantly, the artistry involved in musical instruments, are. You already know this

[Luka]

i heard rumour of a minimoog clone being born by some kids from the midibox world. can't give you any more details than that.

agree with andy, im doing DIY as a productive outlet
(if i was better at composing music i think i would be still doing that on my computer)

DIY is expensive as your taste for sound is, if you are happy with simple tones it wont cost you much, buy a sound lab kit or perhaps an ASM2. If you want to have banks and banks of great modules more money time and hair loss is needed.

[cagnalerano]

thanks for your response, now I know I'm not going to try to do a DIY myself.
I don't know if I should post this here or open a new topic:
someone mentioned PAIA, I took a look at their website(paia.com), they give a full DIY kit(including case) for the FATMAN analogue synth for about 250$. This synth features 2VCO, 1VCF, 2eg, MIDItoCV converter (needs an external MIDI controller) , not bad for that price, I think. They also provide the PAIA 9700 modular , wihch is offered in a package including # 2 VCOs
# 2 VCFs # 2 VCAs # 1 Balanced Modulator # 1 Noise source # 2 AR envelope Generators # 1 ADSR Envelope Generator # MIDI to CV Converter
# Glide Processor # CV Scale/Offset Processor # Power Supply for about 560$ ,definitely not bad!
Did anybody ever experienced the PAIA synths? what do you say about their sound? youtube videos are few...

[RF]

I looked at the 9700 prior to going another DIY route. It does seem like a good price. I hope someone who owns a 9700 will pipe in here.

The only PAIA kit I've done (Theremax) was reasonably priced, well documented and a fairly easy build - but its no Moog Etherwave.

How much stuff have you built in the past? Do you enjoy building or is it something you can't wait to be done with?

I really enjoy DIY - I've spent hundreds of hours building over the last couple years. If I figure my building time only has a $$ value, it cost me more to DIY.

Unless you enjoy building, use that time at a real job to make some $ and then buy what you want.

bruce

[e-grad]

I've got the PAiA 9720 Dual VCO. It's def. great value for the money. Actually I got as a dual VC-LFO since I use 2 MOTM 300 as my main VCOs.

However I think the PAiA fine VCOs. Their sound reminded at the Doepfer A100 VCO which is based on the Moog Rogue's VCO though I've never compared them directly.

[phdinfunk]

It depends on what route you go.

I think building a MIDIBOX SID will be cheaper than finding a Sid station.

I built an x0x box and paid maybe 300 buckos for it... it was not too hard..

find a 303 clone with a seq for even now what you'll spend to build an x0x.

Maybe the MaM Freebase and a Mobius would get you there, but it won't be an exact copy and the interface of the mobius BLOWS compared to x0x IMHO.

Build kits from Elby designs and you'll drop some cash, but compare to buying a synth from a major manufacturer...

I honestly believe you'll save cash, if you care.

Much more importantly, I think it's fun to build exactly what you want, exactly how you want.

I'd stay away from PaIa. For the money you can do better and I hate the sound of everything I've had of theirs (a 9700 system and a Fatman). The Fatman was okay but it was a three trick pony.

Back the the MIDIBOX, I think it tends to be a good deal for whatever you want compared to commercial products.

All the Buchla clone stuff floating around in Electro Music = money. No, you won't have the modern Buchla stuff, but try to find a Buchla quad lowpass gates. Set it up how you want it (panel wise) and compare to Cyndustries, Doepfer, Plan B, whatever... I think you'll come out ahead.

All that said: When I first tried DIY I was about 19. I didn't have the patience or the skillset for it. It sucked and was too hard (and I was starting on EFM "kits.") I think at the time I would have done JUST fine on a MIDIBOX... I've built a SID from them and it was pretty easy. I think I would have been fine with a x0xb0x too. That wasn't too hard, and it just plain worked right off the bat.... I've built MIDI controllers and enjoyed it and I've now built Blacet kits, Paia kits, and some random boards from people on this list... for the most part, none of it is too hard.

But I did have a bad experience...

So there's two sides of it.

My two cents,

--JPratt

[andrewF]

my 1st diy was a Paia fatman, before that I had never held a soldering iron.
It all worked except for the midi, one email from John at Paia told me how to fix it. Never a problem since then.
I added most of the simple mods found Scott's page -
http://home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/

and it is a great little synth, probably i treasure it as it is my 1st born. I still like to use it, especially with my electribes.

Also built the 9700 series, for some reason I built the VCOs into one synth and the VCF/VCA boards into another. I like the VCOs, but have found the range a bit limited at times (ie - for driving a wavetable, for regular use they are fine). The VCFs were pretty good too, maybe not everyone's favorite but are easy to use and do the job.

Well...enjoy your options

[loss1234]

sorry to go backwards here but in reference to krunkus and andrew's comments about SDIY... i just wanted to say...i have built about 25 modules and a giant custom synth in the last year and a half and while i am not making the same KIND of music, i am still making lots of music.


i think it is very easy though to get lost in the world of building and often not even care if you are STILL making music.

But i dont think it is always true that if you get into SDIY you will stop making music. you just might have to pull yourself away from the bench sometimes and make it a priority to record at least once in a while.

i know my music has just gotten more and more experimental as i have gotten access to weirder and weirder sounds. and for me it has almost been liberating to allow myself time off from ALWAYS writing music, before this i wrote at least one song a week and now, with a building schedule taking up a lot of my time, i am only writing songs once in a while.


i just didnt want the person who started this topic to get scared away from SDIY....you CAn still make music EVEN if you are totally obsessed with SDIY

and chances are it will take over your life





thanks all

[cagnalerano]

don't worry! I'm not going to get scared: I see PAIA DIY kits only as a way to get a Modular at a reasonable price, I'm not going to become a die-hard DIYer . As soon as I've built my 9700(in case I 'll decide to buy it), I'll be making music with it, and perhaps in the future buy(and/or build)some additional module! I've(almost) decided to turn to NEW analog synthesizers as prices of old(modulars or not) are similar and I think they are much less reliable.

[fluxmonkey]

you initially talked about a Voyager, and wanting an analog synth... so that's not much like a SIDstation or xoxbox, musically, altho both of those are economical ways of getting into their respective genres.

despite my nostalgia for PAIA (i also still have my fatman, along with a large 4700), i agree it is not a great instrument, and maybe not all that cheap in the end. looks like a full 9700 would run about 450 euro. compare that to Elby's ASM2, which would be an order of magnitude more satisfying, full kit including panel would be 730 euro. and compare that to a roughly equal commercial system: i just priced one mfr. (roughly the same modules as an ASM2) at 2735 euro...

[phdinfunk]

[Uncle Krunkus]

Over the next few years, it looks like the whole world will be getting a bit more currency poor and time rich, so I agree that DIY will become a better and better option.

[Danno Gee Ray]

I'll put my two cents worth in here. A few years ago I decided to start the DIY synth thing. I decided I wanted the gravel pit. I also realized I couldn't buy it all at once, so I decided to do it one handfull at a time. So I bust my own stones and eventually will have the pit. Although in the end I will have spent a scary amount of money when it's all added up, the pain is spread out over smaller bits at a time and is more palatable to my live in money police if you get my drift. I've learned a lot, and am still learning more, and am on the cusp of actually making some music with my collection of toys very soon (I keep promising myself this!)

DIY will never in the end be cheaper I believe. It just makes it more approachable for the average budget. There are folks out there who can afford to buy the modular synths and Moogs and Oberheims and such at drop of a hat. It's just that I'm not one of them. I get a massive thrill from finding a bargain synth at the flea market and eventually getting it working and making cool sounds. I don't know if I'll ever be able to call myself a musician, but I am a certified synth nut for sure.

I will make this promise to the EM community at large. I will record some sort of stuff and share it soon.

I continue to build modules and collect gear that I can get at a bargain.

Best of luck to my fellow "addicts" and to the new synth-heads everywhere. Don't ever expect it to be "cheap", although you will find a good deal once in a while.

[andrewF]

just in reference to Elby.
the Aussie $ has nosedived meaning prices for overseas buyers are down about 30-40%. It is a very good time to be buying stuff off Aussies such as Elby and CGS.

[neandrewthal]

[Uncle Krunkus]

Yeah, Felicity and I have got some money put aside for a house (thankfully it's safe!) but we can't get a mortgage as we don't have enough regular work.

BTW We all went for the first swimming visit to our local beach today. It's only about 100m down the road. Water temp - 23 degC. It was like a bath! So if anyone wants to cash in on the cheap Aussie dollar and sit round the fire swapping Synth DIY stories, Nambucca is a beautiful spot, and the accomodation's free! (Note: you may need to supply your own tent, but the lawn's just been mowed!)

[cagnalerano]

THANK-YOU ALL , as far as I'm concerned , I think this topic can be closed, I'm going to open a new post "BUYING A NEW ANALOG SYNTH" o something like that