Equipment Question(s)?

[Greggy]

I've tried to look into what equipment I need to buy to start making music, but I'm still lost a little. I've messed with Fruity Loops, but wasn't impressed with the output. So, I started looking into actual equipment also. The only thing I like so far is a Shure 58 Microphone. After that I'm looking at a Nord Modular, MPC 2000 XL, and drum machine, but I have no idea if these are correct purchases. Basically, I have gotten lost in all the pieces of equipment and names everyone uses. Like you need preamps you don't need preamps. You need a mixer you don't need a mixer. I tried looking in the telephone book for a music store, but couldn't find one. I've tried searching all kinds of websites for just a basic intro, but haven't been able to yet as everyone starts branching off into other things.

E.g., I made a beat on Fruity Loops and tried to add vocals to it but it sounded horrible. Then, I listened to other people's works of Fruity Loops and wasn't impressed. So, I looked into some forums and they talked about quality mics and equipment makes a world of difference. So, if i got a mic, drum machine, nord mod, and mpc 2000 xl would I be able to record music to a cd with my computer? I have a sound blaster sound card i think. Are these good pieces to buy? If not, what should I get instead? What am I missing too? Thanks for the help. G (-:

ps I would like to go digital and burn cds if I can.

edit I worked more on fruity loops and listening to "better" works by other people and started to see it as a quality tool.

[jkn]

Tweakheadz has a series of nice articles that you may want to start reading through:

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

The guide starts at the beginning and has a goofy/fun "nooby overview" that's quick and painless and worth flipping through (Elvis impersonator graphic aside...). The articles get more in depth and cover quite a bit that you're probably confused about right now.

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You're absolutely right - gear is very confusing and there's a ton of options available. Asking questions in forums like this can be very helpful (though of course you'll often get 10 different answers - because we all approach recording differently!).

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Microphones - many different types for different applications. The SM58 is a bit of a standard in the industry - it's an all around decent mic - and generally used for vocals. They're cheap and effective - you really can't go wrong with that. There are many, many other options and all price points (from $10 to $10,000+). Shure has made them forever - and even tried to stop making them in the 90's but customer demand caused them to decide not to discontinue it.

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You'll find a few Nord fans around here that can help you - I've never played anything by Nord so am no help there.

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Fruity output could be the samples you're using or the sound card. I love the program. However, when it's the *only* thing being used - it doesn't cut it. However, you'll probably find that any "all in one" type production - where a song has been made in one program from start to finish with nothing else - they'll generally sound like they were done in a program like that. That one's kind of hard to explain. Basically - Fruity and Rebirth are both drum machines in the pc. You'll find that hardware drum machines also have sound and programming limitations just like software does. Depending on what kind of sound you like and how you like to work really determines which route you decide to go.

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John

[Greggy]

Thank you John. I think that answered all my questions. G (-:

[Anig Browl]

Get ready to spend a lot of time and money trying out perfect solutions that don't do what you want

So, what do you need? First of all, a decent sound card. The Sound Blaster is not going to cut it because it has cheap-ass converters (between analog and digital signals) and isn't particularly well shielded from electrical interference inside the computer. Plus you have to use those annoying little jack plugs. Plug in a pair of junky multimedia speakers and leave the soundblaster to playing Windoze alert sounds.

What you need, ideally, is a box which sits outside the computer and connects to it by USB (more affordable) or via a special interface card (more robust data transfer). The box should have a microphone input (ie a preamp) and some line inputs (standard audio signal level from anything that isn't a microphone or a guitar). You can of course get an interface with just line inputs and buy a seperate preamp to boost/EQ your microphone signals, but it's not really worth it unless you plan to record a lot of acoustic stuff.

There's a plethora of good cheap audio interfaces around now. M-Audio even make one that has a 2 octave keyboard with some knobs and sliders for MIDI I/O as well as audio I/O, about $350. You can get ones that allow you to set the input levels and so forth with knobs which are handy to have if you expect to have the same 1 or 2 things plugged in all the time (eg 1 microphone and 1 keyboard). Personally I prefer something with at least 4 inputs and outputs, otherwise you are confined to recording only 2 tracks at a time and this can become tedious. I'd say you should budget about $200 to get a decent combination of quality and features, much cheaper than this and you will be making some compromises. Go for something capable of 24-bit/96KHz recording, it takes up more disk space and isn't always necessary but it's good to have it available for when you want high quality.

Now you should also have some sort of MIDI interface, so you can play a keyboard and tweak knobs and sliders to do things to your sound or control software mixers or what-have-you. As I said above some may come combined with an audio interface and this is good if you don't mind being restricted to stereo I/O. Otherwise search for 'MIDI controllers' and get a cheap USB MIDI box, it is pretty simple technology so there is not much to go wrong. Again M-Audio gear has a good reputation and is affordable. You can also get a MIDI keyboard with a bunch of knobs, such as an Access Virus or the like, and set the knobs up to control things in the computer or in other gear. However you will never actually get around to doing this in the way you imagine because it's way too much hassle, so you will wind up using the same 3 or 4 knobs for everything, if you're like me

Software, now there's a can of worms. Well, you need an audio editor for surgical control of wave files. I prefer Cool Edit Pro (recently relaunched as Audition, but it's the exact same thing) by a long margin. It's geeky but powerful, reading the help file and the manual alone will teach you a great deal about sound. For making music, I like Ableton Live - this is the best tool I know for real-time audio manipulation. Just download the demo and see whether you like it or not, I think it is the cat's pyjamas myself.

On the other hand, many people think it's good to have a MIDI+Audio sequencer such as Logic (now discontinued on PC), Cubase SX, or Sonar (or even Pro Tools free) - these will all allow you to edit and control everything, but I no longer enjoy using such software very often as reminds me of working on a spreadsheet. If you want total automation, go for a fully integrated program like FruityLoops or Reason. A full-blown sequencer package will give you a good deal more power and flexibility, but it will also take up far more of your studio time, which might be better spent on learning to DIY quickly. I am very biased in that I have come to prefer a compact and highly flexible setup rather than wanting to have 48 independent channels with 17 plugins on each one.

Do you need a mixer? It depends. An analog mixer will give you more hands-on control of the music and probably nicer EQ than a software one will. On the negative side, they have lots of components and sometimes need repair and maintenance, and you have to get disciplined about managing your channel settings and so on when you switch between tracks, whereas this is all automated for you in the PC. I have worked both with and without one and I prefer to have it on hand. Even though I've used big automated digital desks for Pro Tools, I can't say I enjoyed it much. Their main advantage is in a production environment where time is money but you need to be able to keep everything fluid too. Useful, but not worth the $$$ required for me.

External gear, well this really depends what you aim to do. A hardware sampler is redundant if you are comfortable using the sampler facilities in Reason or Fruity Loops or one of the many other programs. On the other hand, if you don't like taking a computer on stage then it has definite pluses. The Akai MPC series and the Yamaha RS7000 and the Roland MC-909 (bleh) all combine sampling with sequencing, which makes you pretty much independent of the PC when it comes to performance. On the negative side, you have to learn the specifics of each machine which can take a while at first. But I love 'grooveboxes', I have a Yamaha RM1x and I much prefer building my beats in that than I do in something like Logic. What you lose in flexibility you get back in immediacy.

For synthesis, I think it is worth going external. PCs today are very fast and always improving, but your PC is also running Windoze and probably your audio recording software and some MIDI input, so the more processing you ask it to do for synthesis the more likely it is going to glitch on you due to some timing or resource conflict. Additionally, the relatively high price of hardware is often what pays for the best filter design etc. You can get fabulous soft synths and plugins, don't get me wrong! Those from Native Instruments in particular (Reaktor, Absynth, FM-7) can compete with any hardware synth on the market for what they do. You should certainly have copies, at least of the demo versions

(You can always mess about the demos, even if you don't have a crack, and record the output from your sound card on all but the cheapest cards. Make sure you buy a card with a 'multi-client driver interface'.)

Still, I prefer hardware. There is nothing like a machine that has been purpose-built for making music. So what synth should you have? Well, if you want lots of cool sounds that you can tweak quickly, go for something produced by Roland or Yamaha. If you want better sounds and are prepared to invest more time on learning how they are made, go for an Access Virus, Novation Supernova or Nova, or something from Waldorf. I consider the Nord Modular the ultimate synthesizer (especially in its new incarnation), but you'll have to figure on spending a year in learning to exploit it properly. It is not a beginner's machine unless you are a really obsessive person.

My advice, download the demo versions of Live and Reason. Live is the best recording environment I have found. Reason offers a rich variety of soft synths and tools that rival the capabilities of hardware, and the sequencer is simple enough to work fast in because everything is already integrated for you (although this restricts you from using plugins, but Live can handle those and hook directly to Reason). Work on learning to use them both for 3 months. Live won't take long and so you'll be able to produce results quickly, especially if you don't mind using other people's sampled loops as raw material for your productions (personally, I do not care for this).

Reason will demand a lot more of your time but it will be rewarding. Learn to use the Subtractor synth, but do not depend on it as a sound source because it is crap. the Maelstrom, drum machine, nn-xt sampler, and the matrix are the powerful tools, along with the FX. In Reason, you can 'flip' the rack around and look at the wiring on the back, connecting various modulators or audio outputs to various inputs and using different modules to control each other. If you find yourself doing this a lot, then you will like using a Nord Modular. If the mere sight of cable spaghetti gives you the heebie-jeebies and you only want to crank out notes in the sequencer and use the front panel controls, then go for synths and softsynths that impress you with their sounds right out of the box and give you rewarding feedback whenever you turn a knob.

Software like Reaktor and hardware like the Nord Modular offer near-infinite control over the sound. For any more you have to compromise on the ease of use, sometimes to the point of writing computer code. Even Reaktor is too complicated for me. I am well able to use it, but it takes so long to wire everything up (including the panel controls and displays) that I tend to forget what sort of music I wanted to make by the time I have a working signal chain. So it only gets run once every month or two when I want to do something very specific. The Nord restricts in some regards (no internal sampling facilities, limited effect RAM) but the routing and controls chosen by the designers balance flexibility with ergonomics in a way that works very well for me.

[Greggy]

Thanks for the answers. Yeah, when looking at mics I started to realize I was going to need something to hook it up to the computer with. What do you think about the Triton Studio? Seems to be an all-n-one machine.
G (-:

[Anig Browl]

I don't. Things like the Triton, Kurzweil K2xxx and so on are good all-in-one devices (the Kurzweil stuff in particular is very programmable) but they're basically for dedicated keyboard players who really don't like messing with computers. If you're not a pianist by inclination then you have to consider them just as modules, in which case they're essentially an expensive hardware version of Reason. Which is a good thing, but if you outgrow or come to dislike that self-contained approach you won't be able to do anything but sell the workstation. Plus doing everything through a mini LCD gets really old after a while.

[Greggy]

Yeah, I was sorta getting that impression. I think I'll just mess around with Fruity Loops for now and learn some things like writing lyrics and putting some beats together and such. Plus, getting a good mic and stuff to put audio on the computer. Because I'm really interested in seeing if I could make something and have my lyrics on it sound ok...lol. Or maybe it does seem that the computer side of it is better for me. Course I'm just as lost when it comes to all the computer software that's out there as the same with hardware. As far as what to use. All the answers have helped me out a lot. Thanks. G (-:

ps I have to hand it to people that can put out the money for hardware...just adding up the costs for me to get started is more than I can afford when you take into account everything...lol.

[elektro80]

I see you are getting some great advice here!
Microphones? For vocals? MIcs are extremely inexpensive these days and some of the cheap ones are pretty good. Even the Behringer B1 and B2 are pretty decent. tere are some issues here.. You might want a simple but decent mixer just in order to set up one a decent monitoring with effects.. so you get a mix that kinda inspires you to deliver the goods when you sing. You might want to do some very basic compression/limiting on the live signal before it enters the computer.. but you will probably also want to have outboard gear which also can add effects in the general style you will add in later in the computer. This will be effects like compression, vocoding, reverb,echo and such. Calling these merely effects does not quite sound right to me. Adding any of these to a performance creates a patch which actually changes how you would approach the performance. Mmm..and.. some vocalists prefer having a heavy wash of reverb in the monitoring mix just in order to make the voice stand out inside the soundscape. This is of course just for helping the por guy out.. and this reverb should not in the actual recording. Too much reverb can be .. prettty bad..

Steinberg has this new performance synth thingie called Hypersonic. It is getting rave reviews and is pretty decent for the kind of music I guess you will be starting out with. It is not a true synth.. rather a bunch of presets. It is comparable to how most people are using the big roland, Yamaha and Korg synths. It comes as a VST instrument plugin. One of the great things with this one is that it is very CPU efficient. Most decent PCs will perform very well with it. It is not a synth though, and you might want a real synth.. either as a virtual instrument or hardware. Going software only apart from the vocal input bit.. would probably be the most cost efficient. reason is of course a great alternative too. Live is great too, but I agree on checking out the demo first.
Old modules aren´t really that bad either. You could get a lot of great old modules for nearly nothing these days. But then you will need a mixer and a lot of outboard stuff. hardware is great, but software is probably a great way to start before you know in which direction you will take this. Do not believe in the hartdware only cult. These days you can get results from software instruments which are more analog and real than what you will get from old high end hardware synths. What really makes a difference is how you play and record the instruments. Using mostly software instruments will also assure that you will get decent signal quality, stable tuning, no dirty scratchy pots.

[jkn]

I'm definitely an anti-workstation person- have been since the workstation trend took off in the later 80's - things like the Triton are great if you want something portable - but you'll outgrow it fairly quickly. I'd rather take the money you'd spend on the workstation and get a couple of used older synths and use the computer to sequence with and record audio.

Then again - that's just me. This is where we get into everyone has a different opinion about things discussion.

Here's a description of my setup - not that this is the "right" way to do things (it is for me, but probably not for anyone else out there) - maybe it'll be good to see how mine is compared to things that Anig Browl recommends vs. whoever else chimes in.

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I record almost entirely in audio - and rarely sequence anything. When I built my music computer in 1999 - I basically set out to upgrade my normal working with tape to computer - so I wanted something that would still work in a similar way to I was used to on old 4-track cassettes (yeah - I was high tech...ha).

Soundcard was the first major decision. I wanted something I could record multiple inputs in simultaneously. At the time I was deciding between an Echo Layla and Aardvark Aark24. The 24bit version of the Layla was delayed in production by almost a year, so the Aardvark is what I bought. I can record 8 analog inputs directly into tracks in the computer simultaneously on it - I've used it this way a number of times and never had a problem. I can also take 8 analog outs, however, I don't usually have a need beyond stereo. A sound card with a break out box - separate from the computer is definitely something to look for. Anig mentioned this also.

Mixer... I like hardware - have to have a mixer to get it all into the computer. I have four synths (juno 106, prophet 600, korg dss-1, yamaha tg-33) and four effects racks. I also play bass, piano and trumpet and bring those into the mix. I ended up buying a Mackie 1402 - however, I wish I had sprung for the 1604 version - mainly due to having four aux sends over the 1402's pair of them.

I record everything into Sonic Foundry's Vegas. At the time it was a great program and fairly standard among most of my friends. Now - eh - not so sure. Vegas has leaned very heavily towards video production. Anyway - Vegas is geared towards recording audio and has no midi/sequencing capabilities. I love the program. (Note - I used Cool Edit prior to Vegas - it's also very good as Anig mentioned.)

For slicing and dicing audio - Sonic Foundry's Sound Forge (actually it's Sony Sound Forge now...) is wonderful. I use this program all the time.

Fruity Loops - I use as my drum machine - and for sending small midi patterns out to my synths on certain songs. Key thing for me is I always run Fruity out through the mixer into my hardware effects which shapes and beefs up the sound a bit - makes it how I like to hear it. I've also used Rebirth - but I always route it out through effects also.

Microphones - since I'm micing bass and trumpet - I ended up buying an AKG C2000. It's not the best mic in the world (at only $200 - it shouldn't be) - but it definitely has the lower frequency response I needed. I also have a pair of cheaper Peavey mics that are similar to an SM58.

Minidisc... this is very handy if you want to record sounds - either for sampling or as ambient background material etc... I picked up a pair of binaural mics from Sound Professionals for mine.

Anyway - I'm not sure that will help much.

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If you run across a certain piece of gear and whatever what other people think of it - the databases at http://www.harmony-central.com can be very helpful. Most synths and effects units have been reviewed by a ton of people.

[Greggy]

No, everyone has been extremely informative and helpful. I guess one of the hard things just trying to read about this stuff is visualizing the set up (or maybe for me it is). Like I said (at least I think I did...lol), I tried to find a music store in town, but I'm not sure we have one with this equipment for viewing by noobs. So, I could go see equipment and how they had things hooked up from beginning to end. I think everyone's answers have helped in putting 2 and 2 together to equal 5...lol. It's kinda cool that I'm looking into buying a new computer in a few months cause by then I'll have knowledge of fruity loops and research on what I wanna get and maybe work on lyrics some and then buy some equipment at that time and give it a shot. Thanks again for all the help. G (-:

one could get lost in the cost...lol.

[aquanaut]

a basic intro...an mpc and a nord. :smt035 a channel strip and a sound card.
software... Ableton would be a good recording app and you sequence a free soft synth (Crystal) with a...soft sequencer. tada

:lol: