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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Circuit Bending
Help with electronic drums
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christiancoler



Joined: May 17, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:38 am    Post subject: Help with electronic drums
Subject description: either bent toy or hommade percussion synth
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Hey everybody, this is my first post, and first I want to say that you guys have a great forum, very mature and helpful. That being said, I have a problem. I am trying to make a basic drum synth that will accept at least 4 or 5 piezo trigger inputs, but I cant find a basic synth anywhere! The're all very complicated, and I basically have no experience with this stuff. I was thinking i could get something like this http://www.radioshack.com/sm-bratz-electronic-5-pad-drum-set--pi-2845787.html
and rip out the inards and add piezo inputs (i have no idea what kind of inputs these take), then basic bending (pitch, some effects if I can find any). Could someone please help me in first telling me if this is possible, and secondly, how I would go about doing this? Honestly I would really like to build my own simple percussion synth, so If anyone has any info or tips on how to do that, I would be greatful, but I will settle for modifying a toy drum to make strange sounds Smile
Thanks in advance
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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I'll step up and provide a little help on this. First off, Welcome!
I followed your link and believe that this toy is likely using piezos under the drum pads as triggers. I have seen a few different toys in the genre and all of them used piezos for drum strike trigger inputs. Re housing one of these would be possible, but I would recommend that you bend one first in situ (in its own housing) and see how much you can change its sound. Try to find something like this in thrift stores or flea markets / yard sales. Get them cheap, so that when you kill one bending it, you're not out a bunch of money. Keep an eye out got the little plastic drum sets with a toy organ included, these use piezos as well and already have 3.5mm jacks built in for the piezo connections.

As for circuits for drum machines to build yourself, try Ken Stone's / CGS synth site, and check with State Machine about the UD-1 drum voice. There is a new Thomas Henry drum synth circuit in the works as a DIY project (the MPS or Mega Percussive Synthesiser), but it may be a bit advanced for starting out on.
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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for all of the tips! I was looking at the MPS and it looks reeeeally cool, i would love to build it, but I have no idea how much it would cost or how long it would take for two inexperienced people to make one. Anyone got any estimates? Also, I be able to control like 4 or 5 triggers from this or will I need a separate one for each trigger?
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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I believe you would need one of these for each trigger. Not sure yet on cost or time to build as it is still in the fromative stages. Probably not a project for anyone to cut their teeth on.
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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone think the ud-1 would be hard to build? Im guessing this also only accepts one trigger and i would have to build four or five of them. Since this is a more established model, does anyone know the degree of difficulty in this? Also how long it would take for inexperienced people, and what the cost would be.
Last edited by christiancoler on Sun May 18, 2008 5:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The UD-1 is easy. Very Happy
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The UD-1 is very good, but you really want a trillion of MPS channels.
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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In the thing about the ud-1 it says there are a few parts that are hard to find because they are discontinued. I would love to build a couple mps, but im kinda pressed for cash and am inexperienced. Any other easy percussion synths or know where I can find these components?
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The MPS is a rather full featured analog percussion synth channel design. I suggest you start saving and when we announce the PCBs be prepared to buy a handful of PCBs. Very Happy
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Triggers..

Well, basically the idea is one pad (trigger) for one channel. However, there is nothing wrong with a design using a lot of triggers for one drum pad, but then the conventional way of doing this pre-1982, would be to patch it all up using a modular synth and figure out schemes for using the various triggers for modulation, filters and envelopes. You wouldn,t want to go there just yet.

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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I really want to do this in the next week, not wait for that printed board to come out. I found this http://m.bareille.free.fr/ds7clone/ds7.htm
Ever heard of it? also, it says about plugging into a sound card. Does this mean you need a computer to make sounds?
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OKDOKEY, no MPS for you! Very Happy

The DS-7 is kinda cool. I had the black, greenish and yellow one - dunno the "brand" names.. I forget stuff like that... , but they were all basically the DS-7. I got them pretty much for nothing because the shop never sold any of them. I think I paid 40 NKR each. I guess that would be approx. 10 USD each. I was told the shop threw away the remaining 100. I used mine as drum triggers. They were cheaper than if I would build them from scratch,
You should be aware that these were nicked "ping machines" way back then. The DS-7 is cool but it is not even close to the UD-1 or MPS. True, the DS-7 is a classic design that geeks might wanna have in their gear closet, but the DS-7 is not really what I imagine you might want.

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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, i guess I would want to make a UD-1 then. Any place i can find discontinued parts? All the sites ive seen either dont have it, or have a minimum order of lik 75$. I guess i could wait for the MPS, but since it is infinitely more complicated than the UD-1, and because I have never built a synth ever, I think my best bet is to stick with that.
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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

but, how hard would it be for me to make my own circuit board for the mps or ud-1
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stripboarding?

Honestly, for the MPS you would want the TH approved PCB.

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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and for the ub1?
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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Look up the UD-1 threads (use the search function). In there you will find a fellow named "State Machine". He was at one time selling kits for the UD-1. Send him a P.M. (Private Message) and ask if he has any more of them for sale. He is a stright forward guy, very helpful and easy to deal with. He is Honest. Give him a try first.
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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks, ill give it a try
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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

alright, i looked at the price and it is 49$. This seems pretty resonable to me based on the parts needed, but if I use like 4 piezo triggers, because based on my understanding each one only accepts one trigger thats 200$. I may just be better of buying one of those drum brains. Any other options? (By the way sorry about all the noob questions, and thanks for all your help!)
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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't worry about the questions. That's what the forum is for.

About the costs...You may find that DIY is often more expensive that just buying something off the shelf. Particularly when resources like Ebay are around. DIY is for those that like to tinker and maybe put something together that no one else has.
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christiancoler



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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My mom just told me that my dad is pretty good with building electronics....who knew? I guess now it is possible to stripboard or perfboard my own circuitboards. However, hes in georgia for the week, so Ill talk to him about it when he gets back. In the meantime, i would like to learn more from the experts Smile . In analog synths, how is the sound formed? Is there some sort of memory in which samples are stored? Maybe with my dads help we can design our own drum synth (if this is the case I will definitly post the schematics online)
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