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Mark Space-Ratio
Joined: Dec 06, 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Sydenham, London
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 Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:28 am Post subject:
Digisound80 parts needed |
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'lo
Does anyone know where to source B pillar mounting brackets and Chiri connectors for these projects, or where to source equivalents? The original pillars are quite a brittle plastic and I have broken too many since relocating. I also need to finish some modules I have had sitting around too long and would like to source the original Chiri 3 pin power connectors so I can integrate into my Digisound system.
Does anyone know where I can get VCDCO eeproms?
many thanks
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Sebo
Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 564
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject:
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Hi:
About the EPROM, some time ago I downloaded an image of it from a webpage.
I can't remember where, but I think if you do a search it will pop up.
If you can't find it, ask me about the file, I think I have it somewhere.
_________________
Sebo
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My Music:
https://www.facebook.com/cosaquitos/ |
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forbin
Joined: Jan 29, 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Fremantle, Australia
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magman
Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Liverpool, UK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:37 am Post subject:
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I knew I'd seen that image somewhere, that's on Keith Winstanley's website I think. I know Keith has a few of these modules working as I saw him (and one of these modules) at the UK Synth-DIY meeting in Cambridge earlier this year.
If your struggling to get this image programmed, give me a shout as I've got an EPROM programmer that can program these ROM's, I might even have a spare 2716 or two.
As regards the other parts you are looking for, have you got any photographs of the parts in question? We might know the parts by another name, so any additional information would be a great help.
Regards
Magman |
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Mark Space-Ratio
Joined: Dec 06, 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Sydenham, London
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:58 am Post subject:
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Thanks all for replying
I have added two images, not good but hopefully adequate.
The Chiri accepts a trapezoid shaped connector and both live rails are the two closer pins.
The pillar photo shows the nut resessed to allow self tightening.
I have a problem with the VCDCO and I think it may have something to do with the 5v supply. LED's indicate cycling of the wavetable but I get no audio out despite swapping out the CEM VCO for a good one and vice versa. I don't have eeprom kit so may need to chase someone on this if the PSU angle doesn't solve it. I only have one VCDCO so can't compare.
For Digisound fans that's an earlier SSM2040 SVF off to the side, being realigned after new pots mounted. I don't have the later CEM versions so can't compare the different qualities.
Further, if anyone has info on the PE Synthesiser PCB's (in them days it was spelled accordingly!!!) made by Phonosonics or Eaton (I am unsure which I have) that would be a help as I need to fettle that too and following the schematics to these boards is a chore and a half. I am a bit of a fan of British kits.
cheers
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:43 am Post subject:
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| Mark Space-Ratio wrote: | I have a problem with the VCDCO and I think it may have something to do with the 5v supply. LED's indicate cycling of the wavetable but I get no audio out despite swapping out the CEM VCO for a good one and vice versa. I don't have eeprom kit so may need to chase someone on this if the PSU angle doesn't solve it. I only have one VCDCO so can't compare.
For Digisound fans that's an earlier SSM2040 SVF off to the side, being realigned after new pots mounted. I don't have the later CEM versions so can't compare the different qualities.
Further, if anyone has info on the PE Synthesiser PCB's (in them days it was spelled accordingly!!!) made by Phonosonics or Eaton (I am unsure which I have) that would be a help as I need to fettle that too and following the schematics to these boards is a chore and a half. I am a bit of a fan of British kits.
cheers
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did you checked the DAC 08 converter?
how much do u need from these angled supports?
the PE synths are these the drumsynth kits?
u are better with the 2040,i tell you..
btw,also u can drive the rom with an external vco the 3340 is here just pure luxury,but you need very high frequency span of the driver vco to have the thing work properly otherwise the audible freq range of th tables will be limited. |
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magman
Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Liverpool, UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:25 am Post subject:
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No luck on the Chiri connectors at all. You may be able to replace them wuth 0.156" connectors like these though:
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Connectors-Multipole/PCB-Interconnect/3.96mm-Straight-pin-header/29722
You would have to pull one of the pins out (from a 6 way connector), cut off one connector and possibly drill the PCB holes a bit bigger, but I suspect these are a similar pitch.
For the PCB Brackets, I found these:
http://www.verodirect.com/products.asp?recnumber=97
and RS have similar devices in metal and plastic. I think the pitch of these is different though which would unfortunately need a pair of extra holes in the front panel.
A few suggestions for checking out the VCDCO. Are you getting any output from pin 2 or 4 of the DAC, you could have a Duff 741 or DAC0800. You could also try pulling the EPROM and forcing one of the DAC inputs high (say D7 for example) to see if you get a DC voltage output which would show that at least the DAC is OK. Last but no means least, you mention an EEPROM - which is an Electrically Erasable PROM - I thought the VCDCO used a standard 2716 EPROM?
To answer Teknik, Practical Electronics (PE) ran a series of articles from February 1973 into 1974 for a fully modular synthesizer designed by G.D. Shaw which was called the PE Sound Synthesiser. (Note the difference of English spelling of Synthesiser).
http://pcbunn.cithep.caltech.edu/jjb/Synthesizers/default.htm
The original design used Veroboard (a version of strip matrix board) for all of the modules, so a few firms like Phonosonics and Eaton sold kits complete with PCB's for those who didn't want to debug loads of Veroboard problems. I think there are a full set of articles on CAG.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Magman |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:02 am Post subject:
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| magman wrote: | No luck on the Chiri connectors at all. You may be able to replace them wuth 0.156" connectors like these though:
To answer Teknik, Practical Electronics (PE) ran a series of articles from February 1973 into 1974 for a fully modular synthesizer designed by G.D. Shaw which was called the PE Sound Synthesiser. (Note the difference of English spelling of Synthesiser).
http://pcbunn.cithep.caltech.edu/jjb/Synthesizers/default.htm
Regards
Magman |
oh thanks!
Its because the guy that did built and distribute digisounds here in the 80's (ACME) also sold some sort of different percussion synths,i can't remember the name. |
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Mark Space-Ratio
Joined: Dec 06, 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Sydenham, London
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:16 am Post subject:
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Thanks chaps for all the pointers.
The vero pillars look very similar, maybe they were the original manufacturer.
I hadn't thought of using a different VCO in place of the CEM. That would free up a very useful chip for another VCO module (I have more boards and faceplates). I could convert it similar to Blacet/Wiard miniwave operation, which incidently contains the Digisound VCDO wavetable too!
My mistake about calling it an EEPROM I always make that boob, it is a 2716 EPROM. Good points about checking the DAC. Looking at the cct dia there are quite a few devices running from 5v which I had forgotten. It's been a while since I have looked at the VCDO in depth, other projects and studio rebuild have taken over. Darker evenings mean I get to do more servicing and the Digisound is one long overhaul project (over 50 modules). In fact all the old kit requires a constant trickle of tweeking, but then that's why we do what we do.
TekniK
"some sort of different percussion synths,i can't remember the name"
I have seen these drum units and thought initially they were related to Digisiound, same name, different font and lower case typeface but they are not from Blakey/Higham. They were wedge shaped, black units not too dissimilar to the M.P.C. range.
If you have some pillars I will check to see how many I have broken. If there is anything you are looking for let me know, I may have something in the shed or let me know your price.
I will attach a photo of one of the PE Synthesiser boards, maybe someone out there recognises the maker. Failing that I'll try Antiques Roadshow for an opinion!!
Awhile ago I spoke to John Becker of EPE who was himself Phonosonics! He had nothing left of that venture, no docs, nothing! He said the synth business was tremendous, thousands sold!!! I asked why there were no synth articles in EPE anymore... no interest...sad really.
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magman
Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Liverpool, UK
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject:
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| Mark Space-Ratio wrote: |
If you have some pillars I will check to see how many I have broken. If there is anything you are looking for let me know, I may have something in the shed or let me know your price.
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i dig them up from the basement where they are already 15 years,i have 14 pcs,PM me your full details where i have to send them,u can have them all for free. |
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Mark Space-Ratio
Joined: Dec 06, 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Sydenham, London
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject:
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| TekniK wrote: |
i dig them up from the basement where they are already 15 years,i have 14 pcs,PM me your full details where i have to send them,u can have them all for free. |
Thankyou very much TekniK, I owe you one! PM sent
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ianski
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Posts: 10
Location: cambridge
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject:
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| Mark Space-Ratio wrote: | | TekniK wrote: |
i dig them up from the basement where they are already 15 years,i have 14 pcs,PM me your full details where i have to send them,u can have them all for free. |
Thankyou very much TekniK, I owe you one! PM sent
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Hi all, im new to the site and am at the moment trying to get my digisound modules up and running and ran across this post while searching around.
I have the same problem getting hold of chiri connectors and pillars which seems to be an issue everywhere.
Sadly sdiy mailing list and these forums seemed to have passed me by - a bit gutted there's enthusiasts in my home town and I never got to meet them but theres always next year's meeting!
Mark Space-Ratio... if you can spare a couple of the pillars i'd be very very grateful, I only need 2 for a broken module and willing to buy you a pint for your trouble (sorry to beg!)
And a few questions if any of you are willing to indulge me:
Do any of you know how to get a 5v supply to an alphadac which needs it? (similar to the vcdo's) but my psu is of course +/- 15v.
Would I need a separate supply or can I derive it from the normal psu?
I'm sure I saw a mention to a separate 5v circuit in the digisound documentation but cannot seem to find it again.
I also have a keyboard to power up and an 80-22 patcher module that im probably going to turn into a sequencer and have 2 questions:
1) Is there any easy way to achieve a gate signal from a clock signal, or would a clock signal be good enough to trigger the gates on the envelope modules (albeit without a "sustain" portion due to the length of the pulse?)
2) The patcher was designed to work with preset potentiometers, but I woudllike to use variable ones for the sequencer - is that possible so long as they are the same rating (100k)?
Lastly - I may as well ask - if anyone has any digisound bits and pieces to sell im interested in buying.
Well, sorry to bombard with requests but its about time I got my pile of wires and modules working so I can make some music! Hopefully i'll be able to contribute to odd things as I keep my eye on these forums...
Cheers,
Ian. |
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Mark Space-Ratio
Joined: Dec 06, 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Sydenham, London
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:54 pm Post subject:
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| ianski wrote: |
Do any of you know how to get a 5v supply to an alphadac which needs it? (similar to the vcdo's) but my psu is of course +/- 15v.
Would I need a separate supply or can I derive it from the normal psu?
I'm sure I saw a mention to a separate 5v circuit in the digisound documentation but cannot seem to find it again.
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Hi Ian, nice to know you have a Digisound80!
5v is derived from the keyboard controller module 80-15. The 5v is derived from IC9 an LM78L05 on the kybd scanner pcb and feeds IC10 pin 10 on the associated controller board. This is what I use to power the VCDO and wherein I think I may have a fault with my unit.
As for the pillars, the number that TekniK has kindly donated is short of what I need to mount the broken/unfinished ones. Hopefully more will turn up.
I am interested in going up to the SDIY fest too. Hopefully by then my PE Synthesiser will be in order, quite a rare beast to see/hear in action. May see you there!
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ianski
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Posts: 10
Location: cambridge
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:06 am Post subject:
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| Mark Space-Ratio wrote: | | ianski wrote: |
Do any of you know how to get a 5v supply to an alphadac which needs it? (similar to the vcdo's) but my psu is of course +/- 15v.
Would I need a separate supply or can I derive it from the normal psu?
I'm sure I saw a mention to a separate 5v circuit in the digisound documentation but cannot seem to find it again.
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Hi Ian, nice to know you have a Digisound80!
5v is derived from the keyboard controller module 80-15. The 5v is derived from IC9 an LM78L05 on the kybd scanner pcb and feeds IC10 pin 10 on the associated controller board. This is what I use to power the VCDO and wherein I think I may have a fault with my unit.
As for the pillars, the number that TekniK has kindly donated is short of what I need to mount the broken/unfinished ones. Hopefully more will turn up.
I am interested in going up to the SDIY fest too. Hopefully by then my PE Synthesiser will be in order, quite a rare beast to see/hear in action. May see you there!
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No worries a couple of metal brackets will do the job I expect.
BTW after further reading i've found out that you should not use the 5v feed from the keyboard to power other modules or ic's, only the controller board as you mentioned - its written in bold capitals in the documents so that's probably why you aren't getting the vcdo to work.
I intend to use a separate 5v circuit or modified adapter, i've actually got docs on the digisound SP7 miniature power supply that looks like it will do the job if I can be bothered to build it or find someone who will.
Any idea whether a clock pulse will trigger an envelope generator? |
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magman
Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Liverpool, UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:49 am Post subject:
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| Quote: |
I am interested in going up to the SDIY fest too. Hopefully by then my PE Synthesiser will be in order, quite a rare beast to see/hear in action. May see you there!
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I went to the Synth-DIY UK meet for the first time this year and thoroughly enjoyed it. In fact, I would say it encourages me to get some of my synth projects built, as it it gives me a definite target date to aim for.
On of the people who had a large part in arranging this years meet was Neil Johnson, who is based in Cambridge I believe. He also happens to have some cleaned up foil patterns for Digisound synths on his web page, here:
http://www.njohnson.co.uk/
(Navigate to electronic Music/magazine articles)
For a 5V supply, why not have a look at one of these DC-DC convertors.
Farnell DC-DC Convertors
These are much more efficient than sticking a 5V regulator onto the existing 15V supply (as with a regulator, you have to throw away 2 thirds of the input power as heat) and are perfectly OK for feeding digital components (I would hesitate to use a Switched Mode supply for analogue components).
I'm planning on using a few of the Digisound circuits for some 5U modules I'm planning to build this year, though I will probably design some new PCB's that can be manufactured, as well as changing a few aspects of the circuits. I've also got most (actually, probably all of them) of the original magazines that these Digisound modules were first presented in, so if you need better quality scans of the articles, give me a shout.
Regards
Magman |
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Mark Space-Ratio
Joined: Dec 06, 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Sydenham, London
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:47 am Post subject:
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Ian, yes looking at the 5v supply from the 80-15 it would not be enough to power the Alphadac as the 7805 specified only delivered 35mA, you could uprate it to the 1A version but as Magman suggests a DC-DC converter would do the trick. I have found a smart Coutant PSU at work so will give that a test. It looks like the DAC0800 on my VCDO is dead. I hooked up a good 5v source and everything checks out but I checked pins 2 + 4 of the DAC and they are silent. I'll order another.
You can trigger an ADSR using a clock pulse so long as the clock output voltage is high enough. Clocks are usually 5v, it would'nt trigger a digisound ADSR for example.
This might be of use
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/forums.html?page=digisound80&subpage=egmod
Magman, all good stuff. Interesting photo's of the SDIY meet. The Fenix is a tasty bit of kit, I had a play with Sonic Boom's and it has a powerful sound.
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julian
Joined: Jan 11, 2008
Posts: 103
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject:
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| ianski wrote: |
Lastly - I may as well ask - if anyone has any digisound bits and pieces to sell im interested in buying.
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I have, in my hand...
4-off 80-5 pcbs
3-off 80-6 pcbs
Ive had these for some time. I bought them with quite a large digisound system (now gone) and, for some reason, these boards remained with me.
...however, im not sure of their herritage. The other digisound boards ive seen are a slightly transparent greenish material, whilst these are more of a yellow colour, and, additionally, have no silkscreen.
Im looking at them closely now, and the drilling etc. is perfect on them, so i dont think theyre some home made effort, but where they originated from, i dont know.
Ill take some photos if anyone would like to make me an offer on them?
Thanks,
Julian
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ianski
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Posts: 10
Location: cambridge
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:09 pm Post subject:
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| julian wrote: |
I have, in my hand...
4-off 80-5 pcbs
3-off 80-6 pcbs
Ive had these for some time. I bought them with quite a large digisound system (now gone) and, for some reason, these boards remained with me.
...however, im not sure of their herritage. The other digisound boards ive seen are a slightly transparent greenish material, whilst these are more of a yellow colour, and, additionally, have no silkscreen.
Im looking at them closely now, and the drilling etc. is perfect on them, so i dont think theyre some home made effort, but where they originated from, i dont know.
Ill take some photos if anyone would like to make me an offer on them?
Thanks,
Julian |
I have a couple of yellower boards too -pretty sure they are stil originals.
I sent you a PM... |
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ianski
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Posts: 10
Location: cambridge
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject:
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| magman wrote: |
For a 5V supply, why not have a look at one of these DC-DC convertors.
Magman |
Those look good but im not sure about the current they produce either,
im still looking to see exactly what the alphadac takes (no doubt less then the vcdo's) but they look good.
Failing that a separate 5v supply isn't really an expensive option. Cheers. |
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ianski
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Posts: 10
Location: cambridge
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject:
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| Mark Space-Ratio wrote: | Ian, yes looking at the 5v supply from the 80-15 it would not be enough to power the Alphadac as the 7805 specified only delivered 35mA, you could uprate it to the 1A version but as Magman suggests a DC-DC converter would do the trick. I have found a smart Coutant PSU at work so will give that a test. It looks like the DAC0800 on my VCDO is dead. I hooked up a good 5v source and everything checks out but I checked pins 2 + 4 of the DAC and they are silent. I'll order another.
You can trigger an ADSR using a clock pulse so long as the clock output voltage is high enough. Clocks are usually 5v, it would'nt trigger a digisound ADSR for example.
This might be of use
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/forums.html?page=digisound80&subpage=egmod
Magman, all good stuff. Interesting photo's of the SDIY meet. The Fenix is a tasty bit of kit, I had a play with Sonic Boom's and it has a powerful sound.
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I've actually got the uprated transformer so it would just be a couple of capacitors, transistors etc to change - I might look into doing this for a good "safety" margin in case I add more modules anyway.
Looks like the sample + hold clock out will trigger the envelopes' trig in's which is what I was going to use to trigger the 80-22 anyway, and the gate signal will be supplied by the keyboard so its all good there.
Maybe i'll look into getting a width - controllable pulse from it at a later date so I can trigger the gates separately too.
Thanks for the info's - i'll try to stop hijacking your thread now! |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject:
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| ianski wrote: |
I have a couple of yellower boards too -pretty sure they are stil originals.
I sent you a PM... |
Yes they are for sure,can confirm this to |
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Mark Space-Ratio
Joined: Dec 06, 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Sydenham, London
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:47 am Post subject:
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| Mark Space-Ratio wrote: | TekniK, a big THANKYOU for sending the pillars gratis. On close inspection they are marked Vero so must have been the ones originally specified by Digisound. Crucially they fit perfectly so no messing about having to drill more holes. Grrreat!
Here's a pic that shows the crucial part and awaiting  Digisound.
cheers
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Great!
Never did attention its from vero,but they are for sure used by digisound,like i told you its from the old stock. |
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magman
Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Liverpool, UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject:
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| Mark Space-Ratio wrote: | Here's a pic that shows the crucial part and awaiting Digisound.
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Spotted the Elektor Formant in your photograph. Add to that the Digisound and the PE Synthesiser you've already mentioned and someone may think that you were addicted to building Synths from magazine articles in your past. 
What other magazine based synths have you got hidden in your collection?
Regards
Magman |
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