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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Sound lab gate in problem
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Monstruarte



Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:
Something connected to the junction of IC1 and C2 is pulling the voltage low, or a connection from the 9V source through R3 is not complete which is resulting in 0 votage at the pin one of the IC.

the voltage on pin 1 of IC1 is 1.60V.
the voltage on pin 1 of the socket without IC1 is 0v.


Quote:
We want a logic "Hi" there without the gate switch pushed - maybe 6 to 9 volts.. the exact voltage is not important, it just needs to be high enough to activate the Schmidt trigger (the 40106) - that's about about 2/3 power supply voltage.
That's why I questioned the function of the gate switch. It seemed most logical to me that it was shorted closed.

the gate switch is ok, and works perfectly.

Quote:
Next logical to me is a bad transistor Q8

maybe, I'll try to change it.

Quote:
a small 'whisker' of wire shorted to ground in that area, a poor solder joint, a bridged solder joint,

I do not think, I reviewed a thousand times. the solders are perfect. no whisker in view.

Quote:
a shorted C2

I'll change it later

Quote:
a damaged IC2

can not, yesterday I tried a new one and there was no change.

Quote:
an open R3....

I'll change it later

thanks for the help bruce
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Monstruarte



Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok. I replaced all these components, by new parts.

-R3
-IC2
-IC1
-Q8
-C2

Nothing changed. I still 1.60V at pin 1 of IC1. and the voltage on pin 1 of the socket without IC1 is 0v.

I have no idea what may be happening.

Any suggestions?
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Monstruarte



Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nothing???
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Skrog Productions



Joined: Jan 07, 2009
Posts: 1226
Location: Scottish Borders
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is your Gate switch a normally open or normally closed type momentary push switch ?
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Monstruarte



Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're referring to the button in this picture?
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I have no problem with that button. this works perfectly. The button is normally open, is activated when pressed. closes the circuit when pressed.

My problem is that when I connect on 16 step sequencer to the sound lab by the gate in / out, I can not turn off the sound of each step through the switches of the Sequencer. At the exit gate of the Sequencer, the voltages are correct. show different types of gate voltage when the switches are turned on and brought to 0v when turned off. The problem is when I connect the sound lab. the exit gate of the Sequencer mark 0v all the time regardless of the state of the gate switches the Sequencer.
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slacker



Joined: Nov 18, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would check that D7 and D8 are the correct way round, if either of those was wrong then the gate in will not work.

Also what happens if you touch the point marked X3 to +9 volts. That should trigger the ADSR.
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1502
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Question
How about the patch cord you are using to connect from the sequencer Gate out to the Soundlab Gate in? You sure that's wired correctly?
Are you running these from the same power supply - what power supply or supplies are you using?

bruce

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"I want to make these sounds that go wooo-wooo-ah-woo-woo.”
(Herb Deutsch to Bob Moog ~1963)
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Monstruarte



Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I would check that D7 and D8 are the correct way round, if either of those was wrong then the gate in will not work.

The diodes are connected well.

Quote:
Also what happens if you touch the point marked X3 to +9 volts. That should trigger the ADSR.

That is fine.

Quote:
How about the patch cord you are using to connect from the sequencer Gate out to the Soundlab Gate in? You sure that's wired correctly?

It is connected as in this picture.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Quote:
Are you running these from the same power supply - what power supply or supplies are you using?

The Sound Lab is powered by two 9v batteries.
For the sequencer, I'm using two multi power supply, one in-12v and the other in +12 v. As in the picture.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That last picture rings alarm bells for me.
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1502
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
That last picture rings alarm bells for me.


Aye.

[quote="RF"I might rethink your power supply...[/quote] (Feb 10)

bruce

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"I want to make these sounds that go wooo-wooo-ah-woo-woo.”
(Herb Deutsch to Bob Moog ~1963)
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Monstruarte



Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

but the Sequencer works very well with these two sources. The voltages are fine, and according to my measurements I have good voltage levels everywhere.
What would be the technical explanation as to why I can not or should not I use these sources? or why these sources affect only that portion of Gateout, while everything else works perfectly?
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Skrog Productions



Joined: Jan 07, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Those power packs are not well regulated or smoothed inside , I would not recommend using that setup. The power supply for any diy project is the most critical and often overlooked first stage of a build.

On the MFOS site Ray has good instructions to build a wall wart power supply convertor to use a 1Amp (1000mA) power pack and convert it to dual supply, safely , that would run your sequencer & soundlab just fine.

Even better , if you plan expanding your diy projects, is a Transformer with dual secondary windings & a suitable circuit to rectify / smooth & regulate, but never dabble with mains power supplies unless you have the experience & skill in safe electrical working practise.

Please read this page.....
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php


And when you do build this, make sure you get a 1000mA , 12V , AC , unregulated power pack transformer to supply the MFOS circuit.

Having a stable, good power supply is half the battle when fault finding.

Have fun , when it's all working, it will happen , Smile


Dave
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slacker



Joined: Nov 18, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Monstruarte wrote:

Quote:
Also what happens if you touch the point marked X3 to +9 volts. That should trigger the ADSR.


That is fine.


I don't think there is anything wrong with the Soundlab then.

Like other people have said the problem is either with your patch cables or the power supply.
I think the problem is that the ground on your power supply for the sequencer is not really ground so when you connect it to the soundlab's ground through the patch cables something strange happens.
I think the sequencer should work of +-9 volts so try powering that with 2 batteries and see if that makes it work.
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Monstruarte



Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I think the sequencer should work of +-9 volts so try powering that with 2 batteries and see if that makes it work.

that's a good idea ... I will try it soon.

Thanks so much.
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Skrog Productions



Joined: Jan 07, 2009
Posts: 1226
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is a deafning silence from this thread now , did you manage to fix the problem ??? , what were your methods ??? did running the sequencer from two 9V batteries do the trick ????
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