The next generation of DIY?

[phdinfunk]

The price of a PCB and all parts for it aren't that different from the cost of a manufactured PCB.

So like, I've got all these boards and stuff laying around from years and years, of which I've built approximately 10% or so of the projects.

I'm curious if DIYers are interested in a stuffed and functional PCB that they could then DIY a housing, front panel and complete system for.... as opposed to backlogs of things to assemble....

Especially if this ends up about the same price as a PCB and a kit.

Just my thinking recently... Also, I mean we're usually group-buying stuff anyways, so why not just group-buy the whole manufacturing she-bang?

Any thoughts?

--JP

[fluxmonkey]

george mattson is pretty much doing that: http://mattsonminimodular.com/wiki/forums.html?title=DIYcisions_DIYcisions i've done a couple, nice designs, and helpful if you have a specific functional hole you need to fill. but i also have a couple more sitting in my BACKLOG, so it doesn't necessarily solve that problem.

actually, the front panel and other mechanical design/assembly is the biggest cause of backlog for me. soldering pcbs is the easy part.

also, it not as easy to customize or tweak the circuit... especially w/out a schematic, you don't get to learn as much, or make it your own.

[diablojoy]

same deal here i have a massive backlog but it is all down to panelling
stuffing boards takes little time and i enjoy that bit plus i seemingly always come up with some small mod i wish to add as well
foniks vcps module is a prime example as i am now adding a quantizer and a gated glide cct to the output on them the extra circuitry is fine and sorted
but I now have to modify the panels and that takes far more time
as all the panels are completely custom i have no choice but to diy
which is exactly how i like it, just takes longer
just my two cents worth anyway

[iopop3]

Same even here, soldering / sourcing parts is pretty easy fun compared to the final wiring and panel work. More or less 80% or my current backlog is in that stage, waiting to be wired up. I really need to learn how to drill or design in front panel designer.

Then again, I'm one of those that's more interested in the electronics than actually making any music..

I think curetronic.com offers pre-built boards as well.

[Luka]

i must admin that my triple mmm filter was a super easy build and i liked the whole experience. what was frustrating was there was no schematic to implement mods or condition the circuit to my system's standards but george was pretty cool to talk to via email.

i like both situations, and if someone offered professional runs of circuits i have etched and built i might even consider buying again just so i can get solder masked versions for longevity of my rig.

[andrewF]

I agree with whats been said, stuffing PCBs is the easy bit.
Most of the work goes into the wiring and panel construction.

now if we could all just agree on a panel layout, then PCBs could be designed so that all pots, jacks and switches are PCB-mounted.......

actually i love my backlog.

[phdinfunk]

First, thanks Fluxmonkey for pointing me to to George Mattson... Maybe I'll buy some of his stuff, that's super cool.

Second, this is odd that I'm an outlier in that I actually have front panels I've designed and ordered, and one or two I've built by hand but never put anything in them.

My DIY time gets spent drawing on graph paper, making mockups with knobs and jacks and switches, then testing ergonomics and tearing them apart, finally either building the panel or else having Schaffer do it, or once or twice I scrapped the project because once I got everything where I liked it, the boards for projects I wanted to put behind them were no longer available.

So sitting on my desk are printouts of CAD drawings, and a piece of hard board with a cool panel design I finalized for some of those Backlogged bits along with hardware mounted on the hard board.... I could easily send CAD right now for any of them to a metalworker or a PCB manufacturer, or go Front Panel Express.

SURELY I'm not the only one who backlogs soldering in favor of wonderful interface design, debugging, and building? There has to be a bunch of us out there.

I guess I find soldering relaxing, and the smell is lovely, but man I HATE debugging circuits.

--JP

[kkissinger]

I enjoy all the DIY work including the panel work and wiring.

I find that to design the panel layouts (I use Front Designer software) can be tedious. The most tedious aspects are:

1) to be sure that everything is centered and spaced properly,
2) to be sure that controls are labelled correctly, and
3) to include the correct controls -- I know this sounds obvious but some circuits provide for optional jacks and pots and sometimes I'm not sure exactly what they do or what I need.

The only other source of frustration is working with small molex contacts (such as are used for the Klee Sequencer).

In general, I would not be interested in already-built circuits -- however, if a specific circuit was available that caught my interest and it wasn't something that I could easily source or build myself, then I would be interested.

[Luka]

i love designing panels

i think that is my favourite part next to playing with the actual finished product

it generally only takes me a few hours to get the design done and if i have everything in stock i can build the panel in about 4 hours

[emdot_ambient]

[crochambeau]

I'll tip my hat in with the "prefer to solder the PCB up, then get slowed by the interface/panel" camp.

Not that I'm interested in pre-built or outsourced panels either, it just seems like that is really where the rubber meets the road, and while I'm free to slop up the electronics side of things, I consider the shell a thing of permanence.

A pre-assembled circuit board would take a lot of the adventure out of it for me.

[Funky40]

I disagree:
soldering is lots of work.
If you just build one Module per Month then soldering is indeed not much work.
But if you build in numbers then it is lots of work.


agree:
wiring and getting panelconcepts and building those panels is again LOTS of work


the really worst thing for me is getting the parts.
The inititial post is exactly what i was thinking for myself since some time.


Just think a bit more far than people do usually and you get the circuitry in a way donne that it will fit for verymost people

[TheAncientOne]

The panel design can be quite a showstopper for me. Mosc is correct about getting that right first. Trouble for me is that I only seem to find out what is right by using it.

At first I was very perfectionist, spending ages thinking through how I would use the panel. Now I've decided on a different tacK. The eighty-twenty rule, ("you get 80% of the results for 20% of the effort"), works here. I'm more in favour of doing rough out/ temporary panels to try things out - who knows I might hate the module when I try using it in anger - and use that as a guide to having a finished 'final' panel made.

Current thinking is to use printed paper panel designs, either laminated, or 'trapped' behind a layer of thin acrylic, (I can get offcuts cheap). Backed either with sheet alloy or thin MDF. I have though of jig drilling MDF with a grid of 1/8" holes, on an MOTM style layout, and opening up the ones I need to appropriate size. I found out that as usual, there is nothing new under the sun, and Serge got there first. I can back the MDF with foil paper, (in the UK they sell a paper backed foil for thermal underlay under wall paper), if I need an screened panel.

Once I'm happy with a module, I'll have a proper panel or overlay done.

Let's not forget that Scott Stites did some amazing work with the Klee, when it was still a breadboard - now that's hardcore!

Building perfect modules is wonderful, but I think I was getting away from the essential reason for me doing this - making noise.

[fonik]

i love soldering parts to the PCB. for me it is kind of meditation.
the wiring is another thing, though...

[haxster]

Building and stuffing the circuit is easy. Especially if the silkscreen tells you what parts go there. I don't like R103, C14...

Wiring is not fun at all. I can't stand it.

I believe the next generation of DIY should standardize more instead of catering to all the formats. A lot of pcb space can be saved also. I believe in more compact, wire free designs. SMD should only be a last option however. It would be amazing if all designs would fit in a case 3.5" thick. Like a suitcase or bud industry case.

[phdinfunk]

I have found it very difficult to design things for front panel mounting via all the pots (like an x0xb0x. You've got not only to worry about things lining up on the front compared to where those holes are on the bottom, but you've also got height issues now.

So then, do you try to get jacks on the panel, switches and LEDs too? Or do you try to wire them to the panel and then get the pots to come through but leave enough clearance for the wiring?

Hahahah..... I gave up pretty quick with all that. Does anyone know the secret to it?

--JP

[haxster]

I try to have everything ready to go pcb mount style-LED, pots, jacks, etc. Yes it take patience and time designing the pcb. But that is how the engineers do it too for a living at there jobs for a company. I rely on on Part PDF specs and mounting drawings. In the end hard work pays off for great engineering marvels.

[droffset]

What I'd like are panel and hardware kits. I love the full parts kits that come with some of the pcb offerings but they're still in the drawer until I can get all the pots and switches together.

[Danno Gee Ray]

A concept along these lines is the new 9700 Modules from PAIA. I have bought and assembled a few recently, and find them very economical and still fun. They use surface mount components that are pre soldered and then you solder in the pots, switches LED's, and power connector. They build fast and work well.

Sometimes simpler gets built first.

[phdinfunk]

"Sometimes simpler gets built first."

That's PRECISELY what I mean. Aesthetics of soldering, and the lovely smell of flux and all that aside. God, I've got a bunch of boards half-stuffed, I need some or another IC from mouser, but I've got all the Resistors and Caps in.... then there's all those that are just, "ah, well, someday." No parts, just a pretty green board.

And millions of drawings of cool U.I.'s

--JP

[bubzy]

i wish i had the patience to design a nice front panel. i'm always too keen to get the finished board onto something that i can play with, so i just mark up a panelwith my convieniently 30mm wide ruler punch the holes and drill. so far ive had no issues, but im sure it can all change.

[lordavon]

An alternative to designing your own panel hardware is do what I've done with GorF, Tron and Zira...

What I do is build as much of the UI as possible onto a single PCB, then use perspex to make the cases using layers. A friend of mine has the ability to take a PCB with parts on and turn it into a DXF and make perspex cutouts for it.

For my stuff the bottom three layers are the same, it's just the "top" that is different.

I guess, it wouldn't be hard to find someway of converting keypoints in something an eagle PCB file into drill points for a DXF file, though I wouldn't know how.

Just thinking out loud.

[phdinfunk]

It's hard for me to imagine what you're saying Lordavon, do you have a website with some pictures?

--JP

[lordavon]

A picture being worth a thousand words, here's GorF -
http://www.vacoloco.net/synths/gorf/gallery.shtml


and here's the original video that shows the assembly -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tKNCNnPvYg

Paul