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bantri

Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18176 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject:
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To me at least, this is abolutely facinating. I love the melodies this thing comes up with. It beats randomness cold. Have you explored these kind of arppegiators before, perhaps with a programming language or something?
I will have to stare at this for a long time before I grasp this, but it's well worth it. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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bantri

Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:42 am Post subject:
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mosc wrote: |
I will have to stare at this for a long time before I grasp this, but it's well worth it. |
Its easier to figure the struture work if you delete the main arpeggiator and play with only 3 sub arpeggiator variables. |
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bantri

Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:56 am Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | Have you explored these kind of arppegiators before, perhaps with a programming language or something? worth it. |
My first experience with melodical patterns was purelly empirical by hearing goa and psy trance music, there are some delightful compositions that can be considered auditive puzzles, making full use of integer positive math to create patterns that need very concentrated hearing to be unlocked and sometimes take 2^4 or more music steps to loop those patterns.
As a practical influence i could recommend the midi arppegio kit demos from Newtronics, Keyfax and Twiddly bits available for free as a good example of carefully crafted melodical patterns. |
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bantri

Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 7:42 am Post subject:
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[quote="bantri"] mosc wrote: | making full use of integer positive math to create melodical patterns |
For making those patterns the secret is first to separate the playing sequence from the scale, you should create first a long melodical scale with N notes numbered from 0 to N-1
then you can create some step engines that produce output like:
012301230123... (Inc=+1, N=4, start=0)
210321032103... (inc=-1, N=4, start=2, note that after 0 comes a 3 instead of -1) (if possible, use positive integer math to keep things simple)
9753579753579 (inc=+-1 N=6!!! bounce=4, start=9, initial direction=-)
then if can assure that the SUM of the several steppers is contained in the interval from 0 to N-1 you can play that sequence on the scale.
you can deal with several patterns that are understandable for the hearing like:
012301230123 up loop
3210312103210 dn loop
12345432123345 mirror loop
1234567531 assimetrical updn stages up=+1 dn=-2
0 1 2 4 8 16 8 4 2 1 0 mirrored geometrical progression
0112222333333332222110 temporal doubling mirrored arithmetic progression
091827364554637281 double temporal interleaved +1 and -1 sequences
0414243444546474 double temporal interleaved +1 and starting 4 +0 sequences
all these are much more attractive melodical sequences that the standard linear congruential random generator xn+1=(axn+b) mod c, but its worth noting that this generator also deals with positive integer numbers between 0 and c-1
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mosc
Site Admin

Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18176 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 9:50 am Post subject:
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What does the "bounce" do? _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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bantri

Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 10:03 am Post subject:
bounce function |
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the bounce function starts counting from at the same time as totcycle and defines at which point the increment changes signal, if bounce is greater than totcycle then the sequence never enters backward stepping.
On the other hand it is advisable to also set the bounce to be equal or greater than totcycle/2 because if the stepper starts from 0 and bounces before halfway then it will go past zero on its way back into negative values.
example
inc=3
totcycle=8
bounce=5
VBounce on the 5th element (inverting increment)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
0 3 6 9 12 9 6 3 0 3
^after 8 counts load initial state |
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18176 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 10:28 am Post subject:
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So, do I understand correctly, bounce is a change in direction after a certain number of steps? _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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bantri

Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 10:41 am Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | So, do I understand correctly, bounce is a change in direction after a certain number of steps? |
Exactly, you can also do an extra trick by injecting a constant module in the free input of the valsw2-11 module in each stepper to define an initial state different than zero. |
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24033 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject:
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lovely patterns indeed and fun to experiment with the settings !
Jan. |
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bantri

Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject:
The On-Line Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences |
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Once you get to like to arpeggiate with positive integers this site can give an impressive collection of patterns, most of them go outside the 0..127 range of keyboard notes but still a good source for inspiration.
http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/index.html |
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bantri

Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 1:06 pm Post subject:
This may turn into an useful integer math module |
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Theoretically you can build any integer sequence if you have a basic module to cascade like we did analog cascading fm operators in the old dx7 days
The basic module would have those inputs
toggle button for dealing with only positive or positive negative math
rst(yellow input, pos edge) triggers the load of start value in the counter and resets the internal total steps counter to zero
clk(yellow input, pos edge) adds the increment value to the current value
start value(blue input) can be signed but if the math button is toggled for pos math loads the unsigned value to start counting
increment (blue input) can be signed but also obeys the positive math button
total steps (blue input) its our N and should be always positive and is linked to a yellow output that sends a pulse whenever it reaches the count
there should be a number box showing the current step
Current state (blue output) it holds the integer value until receiving the clock input for advancing to the next state
invert increment sign(yellow input, active high) if low adds the increment to current state and if high subtracts the increment from the current state after receiving a clk pos trigger
the bouncing behavior is not interesting to be included in this because it can be done by adding a clock divider in toggled mode to this module to keep it simple.
by cascading some of these modules in theory its possible to construct any integer sequence (my theory though) |
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bantri

Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
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oXo

Joined: Sep 20, 2004 Posts: 36 Location: Paris
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 1:26 am Post subject:
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Really great, many interesting stuff here ...
Thanks for sharing your knowledge  |
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egw
Stream Operator

Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:56 am Post subject:
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Thanks for the great ideas!
It will be a while before I get a chance to try them out. |
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