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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
"Son Of Storm Tide" Flanger
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interested?
yes
97%
 97%  [ 43 ]
no
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 44

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jumunius



Joined: Apr 19, 2010
Posts: 346
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tiego wrote:
it does work , from either point of D1; ( works the same from the amount pot mid point still I am looking for a point where to get the ENV signal after the release control stage but before the amount stage...
(meaning I can use the env full level externally without cranking the amount inside the SOST)

I don't think such a point exists. The Amount pot is practically where the signal enters the circuit.

Also, regarding "either side of D1", yes the signal will be mostly the same, but the diode is there for reverse voltage protection. I assume if you add an out and accidentally plug the wrong thing in there you could damage your envelope circuitry.

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tiego



Joined: May 15, 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right
I think I did fuck up the env circuit ( worked on test then not when I patched it)
i ll check the soldering and all tomorow
rrrhaa
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jumunius



Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tiego wrote:
Right
I think I did fuck up the env circuit ( worked on test then not when I patched it)
i ll check the soldering and all tomorow
rrrhaa


Oh I hope not! I think it's more of a precaution than anything, especially when on a modular it's so easy to patch the wrong cable in.

But I guess there's only one way to find out.

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tiego



Joined: May 15, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Took my wire away from D1 checked the soldering , seems ok.

the env follower doesnt work internally in the SOST no more.
dont even know where to start to debug , I guess that D1 Diode...
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:47 am    Post subject: envelope follower Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know how many SOST have been built over the years. I just finished building one and I found that the ENV- follower was not working properly. It was more like a comparator with no threshold.
According to LTSpice changing R61 from 1K to 100K makes it much better. Will check that in the module soon.

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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I checked everything in real life now.

R61 must be changed from 1K to 100K to make the envelope follower work properly. With 1K it works more or less like a comparator, holding the inverting input of the OpAmp at almost 0V.

Accordingly one has to change R5 from 470K to 100K to have a decent impact onthe modulation.

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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SOST and just the internal envelope follower. sound source is a gated square wave:


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Rvlt



Joined: Mar 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Matthias,

do you run your SOST on 12V or 15V? I built the SOST for my 5U / 15V system, and I always thought the ENV works fine, but I will check again. Maybe you could run Spice sim. with 15V as well?

Cheers
Lars
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rvlt wrote:
Hey Matthias,

do you run your SOST on 12V or 15V? I built the SOST for my 5U / 15V system, and I always thought the ENV works fine, but I will check again. Maybe you could run Spice sim. with 15V as well?

Cheers
Lars

I run on 12V, but that does actually not make any difference.

With just 1K to GND on the inverting input the opamp works as a comparator. the result is a kind of sloped gate, which of course has an effect in the end. but it is not an envelope follower and it will shoot as soon as you turn the ENV knob away from CCW.
This is also what I got from this single and only useful demo on youtube, where a guitar player demoes it. And he states almost exactly that.

This or I got something terribly wrong in general, which I do not believe at this point.

BTW you could compare the envelope follower in the SOST with the envelope follower in the MS20 and you will quickly spot it.

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Rvlt



Joined: Mar 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alright,

I will try changing the resistors tomorrow and make a before/after comparison.

So theoretically ...if I put e.g. a sequencer line into the SOST and vary the input level, the flanging sweep then should also vary a lot more than before. With the old resitor values it stays more or less static. Is that correct?

(too bad I have my MS20 in the studio and not near the modular/workbench..)
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

theoretically yes. however, the settings are a little bit fiddly and as you can hear in my video above, the effect is more noticable with slow changes.
with the old values i actually had the input audio modulating the flanger since the comparator switched at every zero crossing (at audio rate!).

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Rvlt



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I changed both R61 and R5 and now the ENV Mod potentiometer is way more useful than before. It now feels like a modulation amount knob like it should be, before it was kind of the same sound over the whole knob range.

And you're also right: it is a bit more fiddly to use envelope modulation on the SOST (or any flanger?) than on some filter. Doesn't sound "right" on every signal.
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Boerge



Joined: Sep 02, 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just compared the schematics of SoST-Flanger with the original StormTideFlanger - Jürgen used the same Envelopefollower back then. So he made the same mistake twice?
Made a short simulation too. I'm not shure, if I coult trust LTSpice, as it says 140Volts on output, by +/-15V as power supply...


env-follower.png
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Scematic of my simulation, with the corrected resistor
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env-follower.png



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Sim of the original schematic
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Boerge



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ooops... missed a dot in the values for V3. 5Volts input is a bit too much Wink But with 0.5V input LTSpice runs still to 24V output...
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fonik



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It obviously is a mistake. The R61 (R2 in your simulation) has to be in the 100K ballpark, not just 1K.
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Zek



Joined: Jan 28, 2021
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a demo of the Son of Storm Tide Flanger. Great effect! I hope you like it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUiCBT7mnng
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wrentema



Joined: Feb 08, 2021
Posts: 8
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:02 am    Post subject: BF545A BF245A alternative Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi. I'm just starting my build. I'm looking for an alternative for the BF245A/BF545A (both obsolete)

Any suggestions?

So far I'm thinking:

J113 / MMBFJ113
or
2SK3666-3-TB-E

I'm not so experienced with finding alternative transistors so any help would be appreciated Smile

Or if anybody has any BF245A/BF545A transistor lying around.. let me know too.

Thanks.
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wmonk



Joined: Sep 15, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banzai Music in Berlin still has them in stock. http://www.banzaimusic.com/BF245A.html

With JFETs it can be a bit tricky at times to find a suitable replacement. Would need to look into the schematic.

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wrentema



Joined: Feb 08, 2021
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wmonk wrote:
Banzai Music in Berlin still has them in stock. http://www.banzaimusic.com/BF245A.html

With JFETs it can be a bit tricky at times to find a suitable replacement. Would need to look into the schematic.


HOW did I not find this.. Crazy.. I can pick this up by bike haha. Thanks. Just ordered..
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think a flanger is lost on a synth, best on guitar !!
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wrentema



Joined: Feb 08, 2021
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:37 am    Post subject: 50/100Hz hum problem Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi! I build the SOST flanger and it sounds pretty fantastic. Some small debugging here and there but getting there. I do have one bigger problem I don't know how to solve. I have a 50/100 Hz hum.

The hum is always there (whenever the effect is on). But it get's stronger when the signal gets stronger. Here's a little audio example (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tpejxf6muxz0ue/SOST%2050%3A100%20Hz%20problem.wav?dl=0). You hear it reacting to the volume.

I'm guessing it has something to do with grounding or the power supply?? I'm powering it with this power supply set to 15V https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product/fc-power/

I'm a bit short on knowledge here. This was an ambitious build for me. Already quite happy I got this far. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
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wrentema



Joined: Feb 08, 2021
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok Problem solved. My walmart adapter wasn't supplying enough juice.. Fixed it.

One last thing (in case anybody reads this..)

On the Audio Connections schematic I see these open connections (mostly connected to ground I think.. SEE ATTACHMENT What do I do with these? Nothing? And if yes.. Why are they there.. I currently leave them empty and everything seems to work.. But just wanna double check..

Thanks


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wrentema



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Done!
At least almost.. I'm getting some weird noise when the BBD2 switch is on "normal"mode. I made little recording. Just a simple sine wave into the flanger. I'm witching it from normal to inv. Pretty obvious.. Does anybody know what this could be.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xa4nvuofrcqdg6p/flanger%20noise_MIXDOWN.mp3?dl=0

Apart from that it works amazing. And I'm super happy!


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blue hell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wrentema wrote:
Done!


Nice build!

In the recording I hear clicks .. that probably is the mode switching, and then in one of the two modes there is some distortion ... or actually on better listening it seems to be there in both modes, just a bit softer in one mode ..

Does this also happen when you use a lower input signal? It sounds a bit like it could be clipping somewhere?

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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wrentema



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
wrentema wrote:
Done!


Nice build!

In the recording I hear clicks .. that probably is the mode switching, and then in one of the two modes there is some distortion ... or actually on better listening it seems to be there in both modes, just a bit softer in one mode ..

Does this also happen when you use a lower input signal? It sounds a bit like it could be clipping somewhere?


Yes it's me switching. It's not so much the distortion (clipping). But that obvious "sizzle electrical noise" sound that comes in and out.. It has nothing to do with input volume it seems.

Hmm I probably need to dive into the schematic whenever I have time (WHY DID NOBODY TELL ME DIY IS SOOO TIME CONSUMING:-)).. Maybe it's an IC?
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