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dorremifasol
Joined: Sep 28, 2006
Posts: 823
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 49
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 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject:
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But don't forget that much of the great experience with the G2 is on its glorious user interface, I can't get back to the G2 engine. Having a PS3 dedicated to make sounds could be nice but not more than having a PC dedicated to the same task.
In my humble opinion the big thing is to have all the bells and whistles integrated on the same machine, as in the G2 or the G2X. Speaking about that, I find the idea of having an embedded little PC dedicated to G2 patching great. Better if it runs on flash rather than hard disk 
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T7
Joined: Jun 19, 2006
Posts: 105
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject:
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Wow! Great job qfingers!
Too bad Clavia isn't this motivated. I'd sure like to see them get their act together and sort out the G2's MIDI and delay bugs. Clearly they need to hire people like you. 
Last edited by T7 on Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:36 pm Post subject:
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| dorremifasol wrote: | But don't forget that much of the great experience with the G2 is on its glorious user interface, I can't get back to the G2 engine. Having a PS3 dedicated to make sounds could be nice but not more than having a PC dedicated to the same task.
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Well, it's smaller then the average PC, hardware is very uniform and it's all build towards realtime performance with a heavy emphasis on DSP type work. I'm not sure what your pc would do when asked to decode 40 MPEG streams at the same time but I don't think mine would be too happy about this.
Oh, and the PS3 has rather nice joypads that I imagine are connected very closely to the mother-board, joypads can be very expressive...
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Kassen |
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dorremifasol
Joined: Sep 28, 2006
Posts: 823
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 49
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject:
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The Wii is even smaller, nicer and uh, so lovely. Now that console would be great to make a G2 patcher computer, it has even 512m of flash memory instead of hard disk. It makes very little noise as well. I haven't listened to it yet but I'm pretty sure that the PS3 is much more noisy, and from my point of view that excludes it from any musical work.
Speaking of expressiveness, I already got two wiimotes, I may try using them with the G2 someday if I have some time to experiment...
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Albert |
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Audio files: 12
G2 patch files: 79
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject:
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| qfingers wrote: | I didn't connect the Note to the modules that because I thought the G2 modules are connected behind the scenes when KBT is On. This would be better when I get the Mst/Slv stuff working as may I have to use the pitch input for that. Maybe I'll make it an option you can pass to the program to connect the Note outputs.
As far as the batch convertions, I'll look into doing this. Python has a "glob" module that is used to build a set of filenames from patterns like "*.pch". I check into getting it working.
If you want to test more for me with quicker turn around, send me a personal message, we can set up for email back and forth or maybe IM and time to work on this. I'm off work for the week of Christmas to New Year's and I'll have some time (hopefully) to work on it more.
q |
Ok cool. I won't have any time 25th or 26th, but the few days after that I'm on holidays, so I'll have some spare time. I'll pm you... |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24451
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject:
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| Afro88 wrote: | | I'll pm you... |
I see this PM idea coming up for which I see no particular need. But when you guys think it to be appropriate to do it that way, could we please see summaries of it in this thread ?
Please take no offence from this, it's just that I'd like to read the all the details
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | Afro88 wrote: | | I'll pm you... |
I see this PM idea coming up for which I see no particular need. But when you guys think it to be appropriate to do it that way, could we please see summaries of it in this thread ?
Please take no offence from this, it's just that I'd like to read the all the details |
Here is his message:
| Afro88 wrote: |
- Great that master/slave connections are working, but it leaves kbt on for the slave oscs, so you've got both the pitch from the master osc and the pitch from the built in kbt button working at the same time.
- When you use the filter with 3 ouputs (HP, BP, LP), it's always on HP when I'm certain it should be LP. For example, the NM welcome sound, the filter is definitely not HP, it's a LP.
- Cool that wildcards are now working (*.pch seems to do a good job), but it would be great if it skipped the files that don't work and continued with the rest. At the moment, if a file doesn't convert it doesn't convert the rest.
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- I'll turn off Kbt when there is a Mst connection.
- I'll look into the filter issue. It may just be an oops.
- I'll create a list of unconverted modules and display them after all the rest are attempted.
Hopefully I can get a release out tomorrow with these fixes. Next on the
list for next several releases:
- Lfo Mst/Slv which does not work now. This requires a change to the netlist and cablelist process as I have to remove connections from the NM1 after they are seen and processed and the Lfo's are set up. There is no was to use the Lfo's in Mst/Slv mode on the G2. So I'm just calculating the ratio and determining the rate that comes the closest.
- Could someone show me a goot SpectralOsc model with a list of parameters and connection from the NM1 to the G2?
- I may implement the SineBank as well. It's not hard, just alot of modules need to be added to simulate it and it will make the resulting patch contain many modules. I'll try and optimize it for only the ones being used.
- Knobs, Morphs, and Midi cc's (Sound's like a line from a X-mas song).
- Delay times are way off from the NM1 delay module and the G2's version. I'll have to create a list of times for both and find the closest. This may not work for tuned delay patches. These may have to be tweaked by hand.
Oh yeah, I've decided not to release the NM1 patch collection. I think g2ools project and that project would be too much to take on. I would like someone to do it though. I'm willing to help as needed (hopefully g2ools will be a big help for that). Any takers?
q |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24451
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject:
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| qfingers wrote: |
Here is his message:
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Thanks !
Meanwhile I can report that python 2.3 won't do the job. Using 2.5 I ran into smilar problems as pointed out in Aafro88's re-posted message. Didn't have time though to really go into it - next week maybe.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24451
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject:
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| qfingers wrote: | | There is no was to use the Lfo's in Mst/Slv mode on the G2. |
Well there is actually, but it might need some scaling and it is pretty expensive whereas on the Classic it was typically used as a methof to reduce the patch resource needs ... anyway .. LfoShpA has a linear frequency modulation input (called "dir") - and that is what the grey signals do - linear FM, zero frequency for 0 input in all cases, but I'm pretty sure there is some proportionallity issue ...
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | qfingers wrote: |
Here is his message:
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Thanks !
Meanwhile I can report that python 2.3 won't do the job. Using 2.5 I ran into smilar problems as pointed out in Aafro88's re-posted message. Didn't have time though to really go into it - next week maybe. |
I should add sometime next week I'm going to build and test a py2exe version. This creates a stand alone executable that will contain the proper python interpreter and libraries. This should resolve all those issues. That way less computer savvy people can try it without installing python.
q |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24451
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:45 pm Post subject:
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Just in case .. maybe I formulated not clearly (as things seem to be multi-intrepretable on re-read). Python 2.5 does work for me, but there are issues with certain patches, just like Afro88 repored. Others are converted seemingly good. I just don't have no details yet about what's good and what's not - just did some randome shots.
Hopfully nexr week ...
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Wout Blommers
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject:
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| qfingers wrote: | | ... This should resolve all those issues. That way less computer savvy people can try it without installing python. q |
That would be fine! 
Wout |
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Hyde
Joined: Jul 15, 2004
Posts: 118
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject:
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| will this work on Mac OSX? if not - will it ever? |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2494
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject:
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| Hyde wrote: | | will this work on Mac OSX? if not - will it ever? |
Python works on many platforms.
As long as you have it installed on your Mac, these scripts should work fine.
You just need to make sure that the first line of the main script matches the location of the python executable on your system.
type
which python
at the command prompt, it will show you the path, assuming it is installed. |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | Well there is actually, but it might need some scaling and it is pretty expensive whereas on the Classic it was typically used as a methof to reduce the patch resource needs .... |
Ups..true :-/ ... Its either in dense patches used or in the ones that are after the special sound of the thing......
The converter is allready a very nice achievement anyway...
i would like to try it..
Even when it just places the modules its already a huge achievement regarding converting own patches where you anyway know how they are suposed to sound...
Its big part of the boring work in converting own patches to do the copy work in the first hand. Especially to do this on a laptop with just one screen for booth editors is a real pain in the ***... And even when copied closely...
You have to tweak them anyway...
With my own patch conversion by hand i can say that 60% sound related..40% are totaly off.. Its however a fct that 50% of my best G2 patches are conversion of my NM1 patches..the autodrummer for example i added to the 303ish work is originally a NM1 patch.,.. It is ok as conversion... compex structure but pretty straight forward..The converter might just get it done in seconds while i needed 2 hours to transcribe a single complex patch by hand !
In the end of the day NM1 and G2 are sonical very different animals..even when being related closely.. maybe rather a father /son relation than being brothers 
However..i am not into computers so much to have this application started wright away..
Is it necessary to launch it via the console window on a mac wit os x?
I installed the Phyton 2.4 distribution..They mentioned on the web that this is still the most supported version and it is the one that the programmer used.
So i guess this should work on a mac... I even read that phyton is partially installed via os x already...
Seems to be an interesting programming language...
But i am computer programming neb..the first and only programms i tried to write as a teenager had to be stamped in paper cards :-/...sorry...
I know roughly what coding is about and have high respect of these "patchers"..its a creative art in a way... and serious construction work..and a crossword puzzle... defenetly demanding ...
But i have no clue...
It seems however likely to get phyton executed on under osx quite easily..
So if some of the other users can give me a hint?
Dont like to bother the coder with start up questions one of you probably has solved already...
anyway... merry christmas..#
Sven |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2494
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: |
However..i am not into computers so much to have this application started wright away..
Is it necessary to launch it via the console window on a mac wit os x?
So i guess this should work on a mac... I even read that phyton is partially installed via os x already...
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Since you will be passing the script the name of the patch you want to convert, you need to do this from the cmd prompt, until the program has it's own GUI.
| Quote: |
Several linux distributions use Python as part of the install process. It's highly likely this is the case for OSX as well, even though it isn't Linux-based.
It seems however likely to get phyton executed on under osx quite easily..
So if some of the other users can give me a hint?
Sven |
./nm2g2.py YourNM1Patchname.pch
will attempt to convert one patch
whereas ./nm2g2.py *.pch will attempt to convert all the patches in the directory where the script is. |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject:
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| cappy2112 wrote: | [Since you will be passing the script the name of the patch you want to convert, you need to do this from the cmd prompt, until the program has it's own GUI.
. |
so cmd prompt is the console window? the one where you do the unix commands?
dont you have to run the phyton application or something like a compiler first ? or is the script name is calling all this automatical once phyton is installed? |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2494
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:11 pm Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: | | cappy2112 wrote: | [Since you will be passing the script the name of the patch you want to convert, you need to do this from the cmd prompt, until the program has it's own GUI.
. |
so cmd prompt is the console window? the one where you do the unix commands?
dont you have to run the phyton application or something like a compiler first ? or is the script name is calling all this automatical once phyton is installed? |
Yes to the cmd prompt question.
But you do need to have python installed
There were 2 replies about having to have python installed.
type
which python
if a path is returned, then you have python installed.
You just need to make sure that path matches the path in the first line of the nm2g2.py script
If it doesn't, just edit the first line of the nm2g2.py script, so that the path to the python executable is the same as the path returned from the
which python
command
I know 'which python' sounds like an unsual name for a command, but it will return the path of an executable program or script, if it is installed on the system.
if not- qfingers allready replied with a url for a package to install it on osx |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:35 am Post subject:
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thanks mr cappy...
actually it returns a path..but it says "no phyton in" ???
e178165204:~ 3phase$ which phyton
no phyton in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin /bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin
so... doey this say phyton is installed or does it say no phyton is installed? )
i soemtimes really love computers... |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2494
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:42 am Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: | thanks mr cappy...
actually it returns a path..but it says "no phyton in" ???
e178165204:~ 3phase$ which phyton
no phyton in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin /bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin
so... doey this say phyton is installed or does it say no phyton is installed? )
i soemtimes really love computers... |
very strange. Not the output I would expect.
The fact that it shows a path with the owrd Pytjon in in, might indicatre Python is installed.
type
python
at the command prompt.
See if the interpreter comes up. This will be proof positive. |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:07 am Post subject:
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it answers "not found"..i ve run a permission repair and have run the phyton installer again..but still the same..
Is it maybe necessary that you need the osx unix extension X11 installed?
because i havent...
Do you have X11 installed? |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2494
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: | it answers "not found"..i ve run a permission repair and have run the phyton installer again..but still the same..
Is it maybe necessary that you need the osx unix extension X11 installed?
because i havent...
Do you have X11 installed? |
I don't have a mac, I use python on linux at work, but in a non-graphical environment. We don't have X installed.
You should be able to install Python independently of X11.
Are there any other OSX users here? |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject:
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i wonder if i should upgrade to phyton 2.5.. but i am not sure if this is the best move wright now..
maybe another macuser with bigger insight shows up and gives a final hint? |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2494
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: | i wonder if i should upgrade to phyton 2.5.. but i am not sure if this is the best move wright now..
maybe another macuser with bigger insight shows up and gives a final hint? |
You can if you want, but this isn't a version-related issue.
I'm running 2.4, and it works fine on my system. |
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