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ian-s
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Blue Hell
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 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:20 am Post subject:
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 The latest g2ools.
The the scala pages
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edit: fixed the link to the scala pages 
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Last edited by Blue Hell on Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:31 am; edited 4 times in total |
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iPassenger
Joined: Jan 27, 2007
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GovernorSilver
Joined: Apr 26, 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject:
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Thanks, Ian, for your continued work. I've been slowed down by being sick, but hope to get going tonight. My plan is still the same:
1. Get a short Bach MIDI file
2. Get a MIDI file player for Mac OSX that can transmit MIDI output to the G2 (which I'll have connected to the Mac via USB)
3. Install Ian's Scala-loading tool and other needed tools to generate microtuned G2 patch
4. Play Bach MIDI file with G2 receiving MIDI
5. Record G2 audio output
6. Post MP3s of Bach piece as rendered in various tunings. One of the tunings should be 88-tone Equal Temperament or similarly extreme tuning.
Should be interesting! The best testing will happen if we can get enough microtonal composers involved, as far as listening to the MP3s and determining if the tunings are what they expected. Otherwise, it would be good to see comments like "That's not Fokker tuning! The 7ths are so obviously off by 3 cents!". |
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ian-s
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject:
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Good plan.
I no longer have MIDI available on my setup so I can't create the mp3's myself. The latest version has a 'transpose' control which allows those scales with 20 or more notes per octave to be shifted up to a usable range.
The LevAdd next to it is used to adjust the position in the tuning table for a given note number.
I get the impression that a lot of the 12T scales are designed for, or at least work best in, a specific key? |
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seraph
Editor
Joined: Jun 21, 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject:
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| GovernorSilver wrote: | | "That's not Fokker tuning! The 7ths are so obviously off by 3 cents!". |
Paolo, you should know, by now, where you have to post those files to get similar answers 
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| Quote: | | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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Blue Hell
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject:
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| g2ian wrote: |
I get the impression that a lot of the 12T scales are designed for, or at least work best in, a specific key? |
Yes, that's why ET (n^(1/12) for a 12 tone scale) was invented, but something got lost as well with that.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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GovernorSilver
Joined: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 1349
Location: Washington DC Metro
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject:
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| g2ian wrote: |
I get the impression that a lot of the 12T scales are designed for, or at least work best in, a specific key? |
The 12-tone equal temperament that dominates contemporary music was the final evolution of a succession of earlier 12-tone temperaments/tunings, which aimed for "pleasing" intervals in the more common keys (C being the default key for some reason) with the compromise of those same intervals being less "pleasant" in less commonly used keys. Maybe it wasn't so much C being the default key as A being the favorite note for everyone to tune to (A being the relative minor of C).
Anyway, the progress I was able to make tonight was getting the MIDI player to transmit to the G2. I had to try several players, then I had to find a MIDI mapping application because my Max/MSP license was somehow no longer working on my Mac. I settled on:
Mighty MIDI (player) -> MIDI Patchbay (by Pete Yandell) -> MOTU MIDI Express 128 Interface -> G2
I learned that whoever writes these .mid files can specify whatever MIDI channels they want, so I really needed the MIDI Patchbay app to remap all data to Channel 1, then route MIDI data to the port on the MOTU to which my G2 is connected. In my search for Bach files, I focused on piano/harpsicord works, because with one instrument choice, it should be easier to hear the tuning.
BTW, the Bach MIDI files I used for testing sound very strange indeed with the G2 set to the Fokker-tuned patch. They sound very good in the Meantone patch. |
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject:
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| GovernorSilver wrote: | | BTW, the Bach MIDI files I used for testing sound very strange indeed with the G2 set to the Fokker-tuned patch. They sound very good in the Meantone patch. |
The Fokker patch I posted has 54(?) notes per octave. It is 'interesting' to play. |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject:
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| g2ian wrote: |
The Fokker patch I posted has 54(?) notes per octave. It is 'interesting' to play. |
you can try using a sub-set of those 54 pitches to make playing it more manageable.
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| Quote: | | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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GovernorSilver
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject:
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Ok, I got scalaG2.py to generate .pch2 files on my Powermac G4. As a recap, here are the instructions I followed:
1. Go to http://www.python.org/download/ and download Python for Mac OSX. I got 2.5
2. Run the Python installer
3. Download and unzip g2ools.zip
4. Download and unzip the scalaG2.zip. Unfortunately, Stuffit Expander (the Mac equivalent of WinZip) does not let you choose unzip a .zip file on top of an existing folder like WinZip does. So....
5. Manually copy scalaG2.py and G2SCL.pch2 into the g2ools folder. BOTH are needed, otherwise you'll get errors. The first time I tried to run the .py, I got an error because it couldn't find the nord folder, so you MUST copy it to the root folder of g2ools.
6. Start the Terminal app to get Mac OSX's command line prompt, cd to the g2ools folder (I put it in Applications, so it took me a while to figure out where it was in the file system).
7. Here is Ian's instruction to use the tool after all of the above (I paste them here from the older thread):
At the command prompt, type:
scalaG2.py scalafile1.scl scalafile2.scl ...
A pch2 file for each scala file is produced.
My comment: On Mac OSX add the ./, so it should be:
./scalaG2.py scalafile1.scl
Otherwise, you'll get a command-not-found type error 
I tried some 12-out of XX tunings but couldn't tell if they worked because they sound so close to standard 12TET. Then I had the tool generate from the 79 out of 159TET patch - the .pch2 file that was created had a much more dramatic effect.
So far, so good. I'll do some more .pch2 file generation testing tonight. I continue to be excited...  |
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seraph
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:25 am Post subject:
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thanks Paolo 
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| Quote: | | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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GovernorSilver
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:55 am Post subject:
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96tet?
The current version only retunes up to 80 notes.
The reason it craps out after 76 is because I chose to have the table 'retune' ET. That is to say, the oscillators in the patch still track the keyboard and the tuning block provides a signed offset.
I chose this method because it would be easier to paste the tuning block into existing patches, without having to turn off the KBT on each oscillator.
 I'm not using the gate out of the SeqCtr at the moment, so I could configure it as a sign bit and have +/-128 instead of +/-64
I was thinking that 80 notes was a good tradeoff between usability and patch resources. The block currently uses 7.8% dsp and 23% mem.
I can add another 16 notes for 9.3/27% but that would be it due to headroom on the control signal. The sign logic is going to add a few % as well.
I'll have a go. |
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GovernorSilver
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:32 am Post subject:
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| g2ian wrote: | 96tet?
The current version only retunes up to 80 notes.
The reason it craps out after 76 is because I chose to have the table 'retune' ET. That is to say, the oscillators in the patch still track the keyboard and the tuning block provides a signed offset.
I chose this method because it would be easier to paste the tuning block into existing patches, without having to turn off the KBT on each oscillator.
I'm not using the gate out of the SeqCtr at the moment, so I could configure it as a sign bit and have +/-128 instead of +/-64
I was thinking that 80 notes was a good tradeoff between usability and patch resources. The block currently uses 7.8% dsp and 23% mem.
I can add another 16 notes for 9.3/27% but that would be it due to headroom on the control signal. The sign logic is going to add a few % as well.
I'll have a go. |
Ian, I tried 96TET as an extreme test. I suspect most users will be working with subsets of such large pitch sets, but there might be some composer out there who wants to fire off a MIDI sequence that uses all 96 notes of 96TET.
I was just informed by Manuel Op De Coul, the author of Scala, that there is another type of Scala file, ".kbm", which specifies the keyboard mapping. This helps explain why the .scl files do not specify a mapping at all. My G2X keyboard doesn't even go below MIDI Note Number 12 (C which is 4 octaves below middle C), unless I am mistaken. Perhaps modifying scalaG2.py to take a .kbm file as an argument might address the usability vs. resource issue? Then we can avoid the problem of resources being unnecessarily wasted on the tuning block. As always, thank you for your efforts!
Here's what I found at the bottom of http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/help.htm:
Mappings
Keyboard mappings determine the allocation of scale degrees to keys on a MIDI keyboard, or MIDI note numbers in general.
[Snip Scala app-specific comments]
They can be created by using an external text editor, and the file type should be '.kbm'. They are activated by the command LOAD/MAP. An example template file is available: example.kbm. It contains various parameters on the first few lines and then the mapping defined by scale degrees for consecutive keys. For instance if it is 0, 1, 2, 3, etc., then it will be an ordinary linear mapping. 0, 2, 3 would mean degree 0 will be on the first key (which is the given middle note), degree 2 will be on the second key, degree 3 on the third, etc. Scale degrees can be mapped more than once. If a certain key is not to be tuned, an 'x' must be placed instead of a number. See also SHOW MAPPING, CLEAR/MAP and KEY/MAPPING. This is an example mapping:
! Template for a keyboard mapping
!
! Size of map (greater than or equal to the number of notes in the scale
! to be mapped). The pattern repeats every so many keys:
12
! First MIDI note number to retune:
0
! Last MIDI note number to retune:
127
! Middle note where scale degree 0 is mapped to:
60
! Reference note for which frequency is given:
69
! Frequency to tune the above note to (floating point e.g. 440.0):
440.0
! Scale degree to consider as formal octave (determines difference in pitch
! between adjacent mapping patterns):
12
! Mapping.
! The numbers represent scale degrees mapped to keys. The first degree is for
! the given middle note, the next for subsequent higher keys.
! For an unmapped key, put in an "x". At the end, unmapped keys may be left out.
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 |
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Blue Hell
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:59 am Post subject:
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Just a sidenote, not criticizing anyone or anything, I love this thread. Still had no time though to really get into this, hopefully next weekend ... not sure yet ...
TET scales can be done cheaper by just multiplying the (12 TET) note control signal by a constant, e.g 2 for 6 TET or 0.125 for 96 TET. Ian's generic tuning scheme is more interesting IMO for other scale types. Still this opens up a good way to test Ian's patch builder tool as the the multiplication is pretty accurate and pretty fool proof to implement.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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ian-s
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject:
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Just updated the zip.
The new version seems to work with 96TET files now. My hasty implementation of the 'trigger as sign bit' seems to have reversed the transpose control but that's not too difficult to work out.
I tested it on temp12fo1o.scl which is very subtle retuning of 12 tones which brings up two points.
The last entry in the file is 1201.5634, does this imply that each octave is stretched by 1.5634 cents, thats what the result is anyway. Also, I think I may have the fine tune component out by 0.5 but I'm not sure why at this stage. Will look at it later as its the first day of the holidays and the kids are all awake. |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | g2ian wrote: |
I get the impression that a lot of the 12T scales are designed for, or at least work best in, a specific key? |
Yes, that's why ET (n^(1/12) for a 12 tone scale) was invented, but something got lost as well with that. |
Didn't you do a presentation that was TET-related for the NM1, or was that a different kind of TET? |
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Blue Hell
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject:
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| cappy2112 wrote: | | Didn't you do a presentation that was TET-related for the NM1, or was that a different kind of TET? |
Yes I did some equal tempered stuff for the Classic, see here.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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ian-s
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject:
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| g2ian wrote: | | I think I may have the fine tune component out by 0.5 but I'm not sure why at this stage. |
No, the fine tune is ok. I was just looking at it wrong. |
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GovernorSilver
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:28 am Post subject:
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| Ian, I continue to be amazed by your speed. I'll try out the updated zip tonight. |
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dasz
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject:
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are you guys still using the sequencer idea? just wondering.
/Dasz |
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ian-s
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject:
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| dasz wrote: | are you guys still using the sequencer idea? just wondering.
/Dasz |
I initially intended to select a retuning block based on the requirements of the scala file. Any scl file that has 16 or fewer notes per octave, and a final ratio of 2/1 could be handled by a modulo style block. That would prevent you from mixing arbitrary scales in the same pch2 via variations. It might still be worth it for the small saving in mem%. |
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Blue Hell
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Blue Hell
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject:
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In the above patch there seems to be something odd with the zwolle scale (variaten 8) in that it has only fine tuning and no coarse ... I didn't look into how the scala files should work, so maybe it's all correct,
This is the scala data :
| Code: |
! zwolle2.scl
!
Henri Arnaut De Zwolle's modified meantone tuning (c. 1440)
12
!
76.04900
193.15686
303.09595
5/4
503.42157
579.47057
696.57843
25/16
889.73529
1003.25876
1082.89214
2/1
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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