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loopcycle

Joined: Nov 06, 2006 Posts: 101 Location: California
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject:
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| 23isgood wrote: | Ok I put a 150k in there. Is that the value you used Scott? Honestly, I dont really understand how the Klee works. Though after using it for a while, im sure that I will figure it out. Its a challenge for me to wrap my head around the Logic stuff, though im learning fast!
Thanks,
pete |
hey pete,
grab the "know the klee" document in the first post. it is a must-read-- it will get you up to speed! |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Ok I put a 150k in there. Is that the value you used Scott? |
Dang, you're good.
I couldn't remember what value I used, so I ran downstairs to check - 150K.
| Quote: | | How necessary is it to use a crimp tool for all of the wire headers? Can anyone recommend an affordable one at a US distributor? |
I've got these weird red-handled things but I just...can't....remember where I got them. I know they didn't cost very much, because I did buy them, and I'd remember that.
I'll take a look at ye olde Mouser catalog to see if I can spot them. Be that as it may, where I work, we've got a bunch of girls that make wire harnesses. They crimp all day, and I wouldn't doubt their crimpers run into the hundreds, if not the thousands of dollars apiece. When those girls use those crimpers, they crimp, baby. Those terminals are there to stay, not a touch of solder.
So, I think, yeah, I'll do that. I crimped all of my wires using this tool, which did OK. But not that OK. If I wouldn't have had to unplug and plug and unplug and plug through all of the little parts kludging and adjustment that went on through the proto process, I would have been fine. But, a few wires have on occasion popped up out of their little terminal pins. In that case, I put a new one on and put a dab of solder on it to hold it in place. I wish I would have done that from the get-go now.
I went through the proto-builder's correspondence (you wouldn't believe the volume of emails we passed around!) and pulled these comments out - each one of us did things a little differently:
Wild Bill Manganaro:
| Quote: | | About the crimp terminals, I usually use like 22 to 24 gauge wire, strip it, tin and cut to 1/4". I then take the terminal, lay in some flux, heat, and lay in some solder. I then heat and insert the wire and insure a good fillet of solder. I then fold the end of the terminal around the solder joint. You can clean the flux if you want with alcohol. Then insert the terminal into the house and listen for a positive "click" of the tang catching the lip fo the housing. I never really use a crimp tool on these and the technique works just fine. I would imagine most DIY types might be just fine with this technique rather than spend 25 to 100 bucks for a crimper tool. |
Andrew "Where's the Krunkus?" Sharp:
| Quote: | I've got most of the cables ready. I actually crimp them using needle nosed
pliers, then I solder them. I like them all cut off the "sprue" as well. I
know this probably sounds masochistic to you guys, but it's just what I've
gotten used to. Very relaxing actually, once you get in the zone. I'm
running out of ribbon cable though. |
Scott "Wishes He Woulda Used Solder" Stites
| Quote: | Crimping - I have a crimping tool that looks sort of like a long pair of wire cutters/pliers. I can't remember where I got it or how much it cost - it may have been in the $15 range. That's what I've been using. The first couple of cables were a be-atch, but you're right, Bill, it gets quicker as one gets used to it.
I strip the wire to about 1/4" or so, stick the pin in the tool, stick the wire in and squeeze. Then move on to the next. After that, I test each wire with the pin on to make sure conduction is good. I pull at it a bit to make sure the crimp is good. I then insert the wires in the header, plug it into the board and double-check conduction.
That's for 22 gauge wire. Half my wire is 22 and the other half is 24. The crimp tool isn't so cool with the 24, but I found it's easier to do 24 than 22 anyway! I pre-crimp the pins in the 22 gauge slot, slide them on the 24 gauge wires, plug that into the smaller crimp slot on the tool, and badda-bim, badda-boom, it works like a champ.
Last night in a comparatively short time, I cranked out four more 8 wire cables. I now have 6 total. Like Bill, I'm keeping the wires long and will cut to size when putting the thing together. |
Tom "Bugbrand" Bugs. Brand.:
| Quote: | I've also now decided to go for headers - for this sort of project I'm
sure it is a very sensible approach.
I was looking at crimpers too -- I've used those crimp connectors for
ages but have never bought a crimper (maybe 'cos they're not really
cheap - not expensive, though..)
I've used such things for power connectors and have, therefore, chosen
to use more standard thickness hookup wire rather than ribbon cable. For
this I just trim a little off the end, tin that bit, melt a little
solder into the crimp where the wire goes and then re-melt the solder
making sure the joint is good (hope that's roughly clear?) - I also then
usually just squeeze either side with pliers to bring the 'wings' in a
little - though the solder has usually filled up the gully pretty much.
I'd always wondered how strong a crimp connection is (..I don't have
faith actually after a crimp connector on my car was dodgy - though that
was the bigger and different design crimp connectors, I always would
think to add a little solder just to make sure -- and that, maybe,
defeats the whole point?!). And does using a tool make it much quicker?
I guess if it auto-strips 8 wires of a ribbon and quickly crimps'em... Hmm.
What I'll probably do is:::
I've got lots of different coloured hookup wire. Using the technique of
holding the wires together in a drill and then twisting 'em round to
make a nice rope.. Do some long lengths of that and then get the exact
lengths right during proper hookup and when doing the connectors.
In fact, I guess there's some thinking exactly how to mount the pcbs --
I'm glad someone mentioned that a few emails ago! I think I'll have
little 90degree mounts near the bottom of the panel and mount an alu
sheet onto these. The pcbs can then sit a-top this sheet.. |
Cheerio,
Scott _________________ My Site |
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1351 Location: Telford, PA USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject:
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[quote="Scott Stites"][quote]
I've got these weird red-handled things but I just...can't....remember where I got them. I know they didn't cost very much, because I did buy them, and I'd remember that.
Believe it or not, I think I got my pair of red handled crimpers at Radio Slacker's. They have two different sizes they can crimp with one tool.
They work pretty well from what I recall. |
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23isgood

Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 236 Location: San Francisco, CA bay area
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:32 am Post subject:
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Cool, im glad I got the right value in there now. Ok got the digital and analog boards done now. On to the panel, and wires. Thats gonna take me a while.
Thanks Scott,
pete _________________ Check out my music |
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The Alison Project

Joined: Jul 21, 2006 Posts: 187 Location: Canada
Audio files: 2
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Scott Stites
Janitor


Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:37 am Post subject:
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All riiiiggghht!!!! I wish I had the pockets for a Klee T-Shirt. I'd put Goodrevdoc's quote on it (from the incredibly long "SuperKlee Thread"), where he perplexed a cashier with a cryptic quote about Klee and sequencers. And the sig I'm using now (which came from that same post). I'll have to dig it up.
But, anyway, AP - great news. I hope the Klee can kick in some material for the "Torn Envelope" series. Perhaps a blinky LED video is in the near future?
Cheers,
Scott _________________ My Site |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:45 am Post subject:
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Here is, from page 18 of that thread, Goodrevdoc quoth:
| Quote: | Slightly OT, Yesterday I was parusing the local bookseller and happened across a magnet with the following text: "The more horrifying the world becomes, the more art becomes abstract." -Paul Klee
Of course, I just had to get it. So as I'm checking out, the girl at the counter asks me if I'm a fan of Klee's art to which I replied, "I dunno, but his sequencers really knock my socks off!"
She was understandably confused. |
That one still cracks me up.....  _________________ My Site |
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EdisonRex
Site Admin

Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 4579 Location: London, UK
Audio files: 172
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject:
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I must say, Scott and Co, I started this build today, and it's going right along, considering how complex it is. I'm almost done with the parts on the digital board, and considering how much time I've had today, it's going very well indeed. The errata corrections are very timely. and they appear to match up with my parts kit, so that's good too. Excellent instructions, guys.
I'm a happy customer here.  _________________ Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.
Home,My Studio,and another view |
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vtl5c3
Joined: Sep 08, 2006 Posts: 425 Location: PDX
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject:
Mouser BOM? |
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First of all, thank you for the mega-reply on the crimp tool. I think I may order one of those $15-25 red handle units, since that seems to be a decent way to go.
Has anyone put together a BOM with Mouser part numbers? I thought someone had, but am not finding it anywhere. The reason I ask, I keep finding parts that I need to order that I'm not familiar with and don't want to post to this thread everytime I come across something.
Anyway, Mouser doesn't have the BAT85, but lists the BAT42 as a sub. Does that sound ok?
Romeo |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject:
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Yep, BAT42 will work - in fact, I believe that's what Bill included in his kit.
The closest thing I've seen for BOM with parts numbers is Bill's BOM, but I think it may have been across the board Digikey and Mouser? Let me look around a bit..... _________________ My Site |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator

Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:11 am Post subject:
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So how many new Klee owners do we have so far? _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | The closest thing I've seen for BOM with parts numbers is Bill's BOM, but I think it may have been across the board Digikey and Mouser? Let me look around a bit..... |
That computer was out of commission today
Bill, if you should pass by and read this, do you have those files handy? _________________ My Site |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject:
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Thanks, Paul! Hope the build goes smoothly and you're soon Kleeing.
Cheerios,
Scott _________________ My Site |
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midgetfidget
Joined: Aug 22, 2006 Posts: 84 Location: melbourne, aus
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:09 am Post subject:
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Well i picked up my kit and boards from luka, who had a spare set he didn't want. I've started planning my panel and getting my head around everything, and i must say this has to be the best documented diy project i've ever done, and it's not even a commercial kit.
Good work guys, wish my mb808 was as well documented  |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:34 am Post subject:
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| midgetfidget wrote: | ...... and i must say this has to be the best documented diy project i've ever done, and it's not even a commercial kit.
Good work guys, wish my mb808 was as well documented  |
I have to completely agree! Having read through the first 1/3rd or so of the building manual at work yesterday, I have never read the construction manual of ANY product so well and clearly written in easy to understand English!
As complex as the project is, I think even a beginner who at least knows which end of the soldering iron to hold, reading everything, would have no troubles building this project, at all.
(Given that they'd ordered the parts kit as well. ) |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject:
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Thanks guys!
Don't forget to download the errata.
Cheers,
Scott _________________ My Site |
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Luka

Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1003 Location: Melb.
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator

Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:48 am Post subject:
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Well, they're actually controls for decade counters which will use the main clk to intermitantly change the bits which control the max voltage. I haven't even started the process of implementing them, and I must admit, now that I fully understand the way the Klee works (I think) they're potential has actually diminished slightly. (There's an important lesson to be learned there somewhere. ie only lay out front panels based on tried and tested functionality and justification of panel space.)
I think it's still worth exploring, but not as urgently as I once believed.
If I knew then what I know now, I still would have gone for the same size panel, but I would have left them off the front, and spaced things out a bit. I would have sent the control lines to a 9way D connector at the back so I could play with options later. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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23isgood

Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 236 Location: San Francisco, CA bay area
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject:
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So I noticed in the build docs that there is a digital ground and an analog ground. My power supply has only one ground connection. (isn't this the case for all power supplies?) So im going to connect all panel mounted components to the same ground connection. Is this a problem? I don't see why it should be. The two ground connections are assuming that the builder has two power supplies? One for digital and one for analog? _________________ Check out my music |
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EdisonRex
Site Admin

Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 4579 Location: London, UK
Audio files: 172
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject:
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| 23isgood wrote: | | So I noticed in the build docs that there is a digital ground and an analog ground. My power supply has only one ground connection. (isn't this the case for all power supplies?) So im going to connect all panel mounted components to the same ground connection. Is this a problem? I don't see why it should be. The two ground connections are assuming that the builder has two power supplies? One for digital and one for analog? |
As in all things, it depends. This thing, living in a large modular setup, may spray a bit of digital around to its neighbors. In which case, you may wish to separate digital and analogue ground. However, in its own case, it is generally not necessary. _________________ Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.
Home,My Studio,and another view |
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EdisonRex
Site Admin

Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 4579 Location: London, UK
Audio files: 172
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject:
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And a minor point. Ground is where you put it.
Where it really is, you hope is where you put it. _________________ Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.
Home,My Studio,and another view |
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23isgood

Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 236 Location: San Francisco, CA bay area
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject:
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Cool thanks. Its all connecting to the same ground in mine. _________________ Check out my music |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject:
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The digital/analog ground was just a measure taken to keep any digital noise out of the analog outputs - IE, the LEDs, gates, and trigs grounds are separated from the analog CV grounds. A power supply need only have one ground line - you can either spit it into two wires that connects to the PCB set, or you can just use one and the handy-dandy Krunkulite jumper mentioned in the build doc. It'll work pretty much the same. On the boards, the two ground systems are connected at only one common point if the jumper is used. The signals are kept separate even on their way to the panel. They're connected at the power supply if you divvy it up there and don't use the jumper.
Cheerio,
Scott _________________ My Site |
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23isgood

Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 236 Location: San Francisco, CA bay area
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject:
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Ah, I see! I will follow the wisdom that is the Klee, and keep the digital and analog separate. Thanks for clarifying Scott.
pete _________________ Check out my music |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject:
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You'll be doing better than I, then. Ultimately, using bare aluminum, the grounds contact together at the panel through my jacks, with no ill effect, I might add.
 _________________ My Site |
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