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b-funk
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Posts: 193
Location: Berlin
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b-funk
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Posts: 193
Location: Berlin
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 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:17 am Post subject:
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by the way: i found a inconsistency in the bom:
there you list 2 1k trimpots, but following the sikscreen on the board, 1 1k and 1 10k is needed.
best wishes,
tobias |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:28 am Post subject:
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That's the same I used on my 2nd prototype. Works here, as well. 
Actually, I intended to use a Finder relay right from the beginning.
But I bought one that was too small to fit into the DIL footprint, and when I checked what I had in teh drawer, I found the Meder, which then went into the BOM as an example.
I'll write a new BOM soon, and I'll also fix the trimpot typo.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject:
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Updated BOM is up:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/compact_clone/jh_krautrock_phaser_bom.pdf
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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morbank
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject:
Transformer mA? |
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Can someone here tell me what the mA should be for the transformer?
Thanks, Clay
And thanks for the banzaieffects.com link Tobias! |
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etaoin
Joined: Jun 30, 2005
Posts: 761
Location: Utrecht, NL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:32 am Post subject:
Re: Transformer mA? |
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| morbank wrote: | | Can someone here tell me what the mA should be for the transformer? |
As there are 200mA fuses right after the transformer, I'd say 2 x 200mA or higher...
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http://www.casia.org/modular/ |
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morbank
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:57 am Post subject:
Transformer mA? |
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Sorry everyone for all the newb questions. This phaser is the most sophisticated thing I've built and some of the workings are new to me.
I'm a little confused about how the transformer works, I read that Jurgen has moved it off of the pcb for safety reasons but I'm unclear if this means I should use an external power supply? Like this one?
Thanks again for all the help so far!
-Clay
http://www.banzaieffects.com/EH-18V-DC-US-500mA-pr-13572.html |
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b-funk
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Posts: 193
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject:
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well, the powersupply you linked to is a dc supply, you want ac. or you use the motm-style connection on the board (/-15v dc) but then you have to omit the rectification circuit on the board.
best wishes,
tobias. |
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morbank
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject:
Transformer mA? |
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Oops, I meant AC, thanks Tobias.
Why are there 5 pins for connecting to power if the ac adapter only has + & -?
-Clay |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Transformer mA? |
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| morbank wrote: | Oops, I meant AC, thanks Tobias.
Why are there 5 pins for connecting to power if the ac adapter only has + & -?
-Clay |
This connector is for *AC*, not DC.
You need two secondary windings of 16 ... 18V - which requires 4 pins on the connector. The connectors I'm using come in 2Pin, 3Pin, 5Pin, 8Pin, 10Pin.
So 5Pin was the obvious choice.
You can also use a center tapped 32 ... 36V winding - that's like two separate windings of half the voltage connected at the center tap point.
in fact, the 5-pin connector has pins 2 and 4 connected on the board - which makes a center-tapped winding from two separate windings.
Now, there is als the possibility to just use a *single* 16 ... 18V winding, or a 16 ... 18v AC (AC !) Wallwart, and just connect it to pins 1 and 2 of the 5Pin connector. Then the whole Phaser will run on half wave rectifiers instead of full wave rectifiers. Allthough I've tested my prototype wih this method, it's recommended to increase the capacitance of the two 470uF reservoir caps to something bigger. 1000uF / 40V or even 2200uF / 40V would be a good start. There should be enough space on the board for these. With the 470uF and half wave rectification (18V AC Wallwart) I got it working "just so" - with some component tolerances it might "just so" _not_ be working.
But yes, even though I recommend proper full wave rectification with a transformer with two secodary windings, AC-Wallwart supply is certainly possible if you keep the above in mind.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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morbank
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject:
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Thanks for the breakdown Jurgen! Let me make sure I understand.
I need an 120v compatible, AC transformer, with 2 secondary windings both at 16-18v each?
If I were looking for this online how might it be listed?
And lastly, where should the ac plug be attached?
Anyone have pictures of there transformer?
-Clay
[/quote] |
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ziwzih
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject:
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I'm not sure which is cooler: the fact that my boards arrived today or Jürgen's Gentle Giant return address sticker! 
This is my first post here but I expect to be posting a ton of annoying newbie questions shortly. |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24661
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 328
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject:
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| ziwzih wrote: | | [...]but I expect to be posting a ton of annoying newbie questions shortly. |
So do we 
 
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:26 am Post subject:
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| morbank wrote: | And lastly, where should the ac plug be attached?
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Are you sure you want to build the mains stuff yourself?
I'd gladly help, but that kind of stuff is hard to convey over the internet.
You really should have somone standing next to you who is experienced with mains connections, when you do it for the first time.
There's so much to think about: Primary fuse, two independent means of fixing the wires mechanically, length of protective earth wire compared to the other wires, means of connecting protective earth to the metal enclosure .. and probably 10 other things I don't remember but do them "automatically".
Maybe it's a better solution to just go for a 18V AC wallwart and two 1000uF / 40V capacitors instead of the two 470uF ones.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:29 am Post subject:
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| ziwzih wrote: | | Gentle Giant return address sticker! |
I'm still hunting for a mint "Free Hand" and "In A Glass House" Vinyl.
If anyone has one of these to sell in really pristine condition, please let me know!
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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whomper
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Israel
Audio files: 2
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:54 am Post subject:
To 'C' or not to 'C' |
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I have probably purchased the non 'c' of the BC550, BC560 and BD239.
Is it a good substitute or should I purchase the 'C' version of the above 3.
Thanks,
Whomper |
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morbank
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:51 am Post subject:
Transformer mA? |
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You're right Jurgen, I should have someone helping me. I wish I knew someone who could! I guess I thought I could duplicate the transformer design from someone else on this list... Well, what are the downsides of using the wallwart? It might just be the way to go. Thanks again for all the help.
-Clay |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject:
Re: To 'C' or not to 'C' |
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| whomper wrote: | I have probably purchased the non 'c' of the BC550, BC560 and BD239.
Is it a good substitute or should I purchase the 'C' version of the above 3.
Thanks,
Whomper |
The BC550 and BC560 are probably good enough without C grading.
(But I haven't tested.)
The BD239 should really be the C type, as the beta is very, very low otherwise.
You could try other npn transitors in TO-220 package with B-C-E pinout, rated for 40V or above, 500mA or above, and beta > 80.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Transformer mA? |
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| morbank wrote: | You're right Jurgen, I should have someone helping me. I wish I knew someone who could! I guess I thought I could duplicate the transformer design from someone else on this list... Well, what are the downsides of using the wallwart? It might just be the way to go. Thanks again for all the help.
-Clay |
Half wave rectifying is considered "not elegant", because it needs overly sized capacitors, and creates higher peak currents. But the more I think of it, the more attractive it is to simply use a single wall wart and just upsize the capacitors. We're talking of just a few cents more on caps here (and there's plenty space on the board) - at the benefit of a safe and easy way too hook it all up at the mains.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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morbank
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject:
transformer mA? |
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| Quote: | | But the more I think of it, the more attractive it is to simply use a single wall wart and just upsize the capacitors. |
Well I'm happy to be the guineapig! It would definatly simplify the build for me.
Are the 470uF reservoir caps the only components I would need to swap out?
-Clay |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject:
Re: transformer mA? |
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| morbank wrote: | | Quote: | | But the more I think of it, the more attractive it is to simply use a single wall wart and just upsize the capacitors. |
Well I'm happy to be the guineapig! It would definatly simplify the build for me.
Are the 470uF reservoir caps the only components I would need to swap out?
-Clay |
Actually I've played guinea pig myself - lazy that I am, I made most of the tests with just the same (barely) 18V AC wallwart plugged into the Krautrock Phaser that I had used for the Tau and the Triple Chorus.
It even worked with 470uF caps in place - but go for larger caps to have some reserve for component tolerances, mains voltage drops, etc.
Yes, it's just the two capacitors, no other components.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject:
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For all who have missed the PCB + LDRs order deadline:
I still have quite a number of boards, and LDRs are available from here:
https://www.distrelec.com/ishop/StaticHTML/shared/distrelec/
Search for "M996011a" (without the quotation marks)
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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morbank
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 58
Location: USA
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Transformer mA? |
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Sure ... as long as they fit into the board!
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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whomper
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Israel
Audio files: 2
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject:
Re: To 'C' or not to 'C' |
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| jhaible wrote: | | whomper wrote: | I have probably purchased the non 'c' of the BC550, BC560 and BD239.
Is it a good substitute or should I purchase the 'C' version of the above 3.
Thanks,
Whomper |
The BC550 and BC560 are probably good enough without C grading.
(But I haven't tested.)
The BD239 should really be the C type, as the beta is very, very low otherwise.
You could try other npn transitors in TO-220 package with B-C-E pinout, rated for 40V or above, 500mA or above, and beta > 80.
JH. |
Well, went in to the store today and found a replacement:
BD239C -> BD241C
BC560C -> BC557C
Are they ok?
Also, has anyone tested the relay Gruner 213D?
Whomper |
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