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Kassen
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 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:48 am Post subject:
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| mosc wrote: | Using a Mac feels to me like knuckling under to the Inquisition.
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Yeah, but so does Windows (to me at least), with marvelous options like "Have Windows manage these settings for my computer (reccomended)".
Maybe I'm perverse or perhaps I have some deep rooted problem but even if I didn't know what the options did that "recommended" bit by itself would be enough for me to turn everything on that page to "off".
I generally don't like "X is better then Y" style marketing in any field, it seems distastefull to me, but I suppose that's partially something you get because of MS's near monopoly in general purpose desktop OS's. For the Ipod Apple doesn't do it as in that market there isn't another brand that has as much recognition.
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:54 am Post subject:
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| mosc wrote: | | Mac users can be very tedious. Using a Mac feels to me like knuckling under to the Inquisition. |
unlike Windows users??  
Yes I suppose it is like a religion and I think that if Apple were the main stay, I'd probably be supporting someone else . I don't really like Apple as much as I used to, Macs are too much like PC's these days. I feel Kas' pain though. I too as mentioned somewhere else earlier, would prefer a computer where I could make my own apps rather than having to use others.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:59 am Post subject:
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| Antimon wrote: | I admire you, Kassen, for keeping up the energy to care about these things. For my sanity's sake, I've made up my mind that OSs (among other things) are irrelevant, and decided for me by external forces.
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Yeah, well, I'm near my breaking point. Perhaps my frame of reference is a bit different because the first desktop that I had for myself ran such a beautifull and dependable OS. Nothing I've encontered since then can measure up to that standard and it has increased my demands heavily.
To me a realtime multitasking OS for the desktop that works very quickly with 8MB of RAM seems like a entirely reasonable demand because it's been shown that it can be done. If you can't build a OS like that then I realy can't blame you because neither could I but it's still sub-par by my standard. Worse yet; the offerings go down with each generation so we are now nearing the point where I find mainstream OS's completely unworkable.
The sad thing is that people don't seem to notice because the standard they hold computers to is flexible, ie; what the other side is doing, so if both sides are doing the same it can all slide down and nobody notices, at least that's what it looks like to me.
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blue hell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:10 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | would prefer a computer where I could make my own apps rather than having to use others. |
And that's why I use windows, not because it's easier or better, but just because it took me ages to get a bit of control over the thing and using anything different would take me ages again to get control over that.
Oh and I started using a PC instead of a Mac because the price for a mac was way out of my budget then .. erm a new PC as well, but there were used ones and with a bit of trickery and a little money you could make those "just like" new. I guess that if I would have had the money then I'd have bought a Lisa, that was a sexy thing 
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
9 3 4 .. erm .. not 13 then? .. hmm, ah eight! .. yeah yeah as in 8647 .. 47 is an 88 .. pwew .. numbles! |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:37 am Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: |
Oh and I started using a PC instead of a Mac because the price for a mac was way out of my budget then .. erm a new PC as well, but there were used ones and with a bit of trickery and a little money you could make those "just like" new. I guess that if I would have had the money then I'd have bought a Lisa, that was a sexy thing |
My first computer was an Atari STe (running Cubase of course!). I was given a PC (a 486DX or something) but it was pure hell and nothing really worked on it, but I was really lucky to have found an SE/30 which had been thrown out. This was pure joy and even allowed me to hook it up to my sampler using SCSI. Yes it did crash, and yes it was slow, but it worked, and it worked way better than the PC did.
I have been thinking of building a PC recently, but I don't really need to. The thing with Macs is that they've never really cost me that much, because they've always lasted, and I learnt the tricks of getting one 'cheap'. There have also been many occasions where I've thought of switching to PC- but I guess it's always been a bit like always voting Labour then switching to Tory- something I could never do. Live by the sword, die by the sword etc etc
Like I said- it's what you're used to. Scripting with Automator is a bit like building applications too  Quartz Composer provides a MAX/MSP like environment as well (perhaps more Plogue Bidule actually!)- although I still have yet to get that working- too little time at the moment.
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mosc
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:43 am Post subject:
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To be fair, Linux people are religious too, but it's OK because I'm one of them.
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:53 am Post subject:
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I think when one spends all day on these damn things you get to love them (or hate them). I don't think there are a lot of DIY fanatics who also use Mac either- I know this because I hardly spend any time there any more
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blue hell
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:40 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | My first computer was an Atari STe |
Even that was too expensive for me
I started with a sinclair zx81, then I built a couple myself (my own design, running forth) and after that I had a CP/M machine that was given to me because a friend found that I needed a "real" computer. It was quite shocking how inflexible that one was at first, but every computer after that made it worse in some aspects, yet better in others. The ones I built myself were most fun, of course, but having to write everything yourself has it's limits ... 
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
9 3 4 .. erm .. not 13 then? .. hmm, ah eight! .. yeah yeah as in 8647 .. 47 is an 88 .. pwew .. numbles! |
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Kassen
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:46 am Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | The ones I built myself were most fun, of course, but having to write everything yourself has it's limits ... |
Jan you should post pictures. I don't think everyone will realise quite what yopu mean here without having seen one; I know I asumed you had gotten a mo-bo and screwed it in a case when you offered to show me one.
I don't imagine you ahd to deal with many undocumented system hooks....
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blue hell
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:40 am Post subject:
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| Quote: | MOBO Motherboard
MOBO Motor Boat
MOBO Music of Black Origin |
The first I guess you meant
I have some pics of the one I kept for nostalgic reasons - at home though, so later. There is no mobo indeed (and not a case either)
I might even have the source code somewhere. I think I once transferred it from my CP/M to a DOS machine. And as I kept on copying old HDs to new for about every new DOS machine I got it might still be in some deep folder, like old_labtobbe/D/old_compaq/D/old_nobrand/C/old_bullet/projects/swomp/30-03-89/forth.asm or something
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
9 3 4 .. erm .. not 13 then? .. hmm, ah eight! .. yeah yeah as in 8647 .. 47 is an 88 .. pwew .. numbles! |
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blue hell
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject:
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don't envy you on that wiring job
It almost looks as bad as some soundlabs!!
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DrJustice
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | Here it is, this was the 2nd computer I built, no floppy drive but it has an eeprom burner so it can be used to bootstrap itself into a new os. It needs a terminal for I/O. |
Wow! That is one bad-ass computer you've got there!  
DJ
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elektro80
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject:
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Did you build that early 80s CP/M Elektor thingige?
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blue hell
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject:
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| elektro80 wrote: | | Did you build that early 80s CP/M Elektor thingige? |
No, I don't remember Elektor doing anything with CP/M ... they had a z80 card for the Formant ... But I got a lot of inspiration from Elektor of course, and I used the Elektor video card in my first self built thing (80 * 25 characters !!). I don't have that one any more ... no idea where it went, canibalized I guess, but I remember I used a modified old Russian portable TV as a screen ... 10 x 7 cm or something, I had good eyes then Actually that one was the development system for the one shown above. After that I got my Bullet CP/M machine with a full 128 kBytes of ram and two !! floppy drives.
Ah, well, those were the days computers still were real fun in itself. Nowadays it's a tool, and the damn thing just has to work, and a b it faster please
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
9 3 4 .. erm .. not 13 then? .. hmm, ah eight! .. yeah yeah as in 8647 .. 47 is an 88 .. pwew .. numbles! |
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elektro80
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject:
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I think it was Elektor?  But then every decent electronics mag were deep into computers just about then.
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Antimon
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:35 am Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | Here it is, this was the 2nd computer I built, no floppy drive but it has an eeprom burner so it can be used to bootstrap itself into a new os. It needs a terminal for I/O. |
Wicked!
/Stefan
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bachus
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:54 am Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | Here it is, this was the 2nd computer I built, no floppy drive but it has an eeprom burner so it can be used to bootstrap itself into a new os. It needs a terminal for I/O. |
Dang!
Very nice piece of work Mr Hell.
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bachus
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:01 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | I expected rediculous amounts of bloat and chrome and now it turns out it's in fact rediculous amounts of bloat and chrome. Do I win?
Oh, no, wait, everybody loses. |
But I like chrome 
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elektro80
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:11 am Post subject:
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OS X 10.5 ... chrome.. or actually it´s more like shades of grey which makes it more neutral. This is nothing like the 10.4 transparent bliss that Vista got.
Bloat? Not really, I installed 10.5 yesterday and so far the only thing I can say is that 10.5 is really good. It is more responsive than ever. I was kinda shocked by the really sluggish feel that Vista got even on really fast new PCs and I feared that the 10.5 GUI might be similar. 10.5 has nothing of that at all.
The hyped features in 10.5 are absolutely OK, but more important are all the small changes and adds all over.
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blue hell
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject:
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Think I need a new virtual dub version, so I'm wandering around a bit on that site and just tripped over
| Quote: | What makes a computer slow
I've become increasingly frustrated with the speed of computers lately, or rather, lack thereof. After thinking about it, I came up with three reasons why I think computers have gotten slow. It's a bit long. Should I call this a rant? Oh well, let's just start with the first one: |
See : http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=176#body for more.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
9 3 4 .. erm .. not 13 then? .. hmm, ah eight! .. yeah yeah as in 8647 .. 47 is an 88 .. pwew .. numbles! |
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bachus
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | Think I need a new virtual dub version, so I'm wandering around a bit on that site and just tripped over
| Quote: | What makes a computer slow
I've become increasingly frustrated with the speed of computers lately, or rather, lack thereof. After thinking about it, I came up with three reasons why I think computers have gotten slow. It's a bit long. Should I call this a rant? Oh well, let's just start with the first one: |
See : http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=176#body for more. |
Thanks--that's a good read.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject:
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| elektro80 wrote: |
Bloat? Not really, |
Stein...
http://www.apple.com/macosx/techspecs/
HD requirements jumped up by 200%in a week or so (since I last looked) to 9 gigs(!!!!!) of HD space and 512 MB of ram (and who knows where they'll be next week at this rate?). That' s even more then XP needs(!!!!).
I'm very sorry but that's beyond even bloat and well into loony town territory.
Can we just get serious here for a second? Aside from Vista which is just silly and not worthy of serious consideration, name me one single OS that's more bloated then that. Just one single OS.
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cappy2112
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | 9 gigs(!!!!!) of HD space and 512 MB of ram (and who knows where they'll be next week at this rate?). That' s even more then XP needs(!!!!).
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512 is the minimum I would even consider for XP, but I typically run 1 GB.
Double that for Vista. I knew of a very famous programmer who put 750MB in his notebook, and turned off virtual memory in XP, just to help system performance.
Hard drives are so cheap, why even bother worrying about 9GB dedicated to the OS, when you can have 300GB for much less than one of the synthesizers in your studio?
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cappy2112
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: |
To me a realtime multitasking OS for the desktop that works very quickly with 8MB of RAM seems like a entirely reasonable demand because it's been
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When the compiler itself takes more than 8MB, and the programs it generates are in the 100's of MB, then 8MB does seem demanding. |
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