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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Quantizer
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philpeery



Joined: Nov 08, 2006
Posts: 137
Location: new jersey, usa

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just ordered a pair of these last night (plus a few other boards Very Happy ), can't wait to get them! Cool design, I like it when we can avoid those hard to get AD chips.

Quote:
Personally I always use solder lugs/pins or test point eyes to connect my power wiring


Hey Sine, this is a cool tip! Can you tell us where to get those cool test point eyes? I've never seen them before!

Regards,
Phil
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I use "PCB pins" which are really good when you then slip a peice of heatshrink down over the wire and pin. Makes a mechanically sound connection which you never need to worry about being moved, as the wire won't be slowly snapped off.

Have a look at this link-

PCB Pins

BTW I know the other moderators know how to make these links smaller, but I don't. Wish I did. Rolling Eyes Laughing

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Last edited by Uncle Krunkus on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I Wish I did. Rolling Eyes Laughing


I made a tutorial Very Happy

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey! It worked!
Yeah for Uncle Jan!
Yeah for Uncle Jan!
Very Happy

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guitarfool



Joined: Feb 26, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I think I successfully merged the CGS Diatonic Converter with my Quantizer. I wired up the Diatonic Converter as per the example on Ken Stone's page for it, and used the outputs of U2 and U4 of the Quantizer to driver the 3 "note select" and "octave select" inputs of the Diatonic Converter (see pictures below). I hooked wires on the marked ends of R2, R8, R11, R15, R20 and R27 to do this. Worked a treat. Very Happy

I also posted a couple of sound clips of the Diatonic Converter output. The 1st one is the Quantizer being fed by a S/H fed by a low noise source. At the 25 second mark, I switched it from major to minor mode.

The 2nd sound clip has 2 8-step sequencers, one running about 1/7 the speed of the first, thereby transposing an 8-note melody. Along with that, there's an LFO very slowly toggling it between major and minor.

I made a couple of clips of the 3 original Quantizer output modes (halfstep, wholestep and fourths) but since Ray just put up similar clips on the MFOS website, I'll spare you all that.


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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very neat stuff - Thanks for posting the info.
I've got a diatonic converter waiting in line to be stuffed...
Good job and nice clips.

bruce
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now there are sound clips and a youtube video on the site Very Happy
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/VOLTAGEQUANTIZER/VOLTAGEQUANTIZER.php

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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

guitarfool wrote:

I made a couple of clips of the 3 original Quantizer output modes (halfstep, wholestep and fourths) but since Ray just put up similar clips on the MFOS website, I'll spare you all that.


So, how is this working out? Is it still working well?

Did you panel mount a switch to select between maj or minor scale from your Diatonic Convertor? In the CGS document, there is simply an input labeled maj/minor. I guess this is a trigger type switch?

Can you say anything about how the Quantizer modes and Diatonic Convtr modes interact with one another? i.e. there's whole, half, and quarter steps, whose voltage steps I think translate to whole tones(6), semitones (12), and quartertones (24)?

Then the Diatonic Converter further drills down the possible outputs to notes of minor or major scales? So, if the quantizer is in whole tone mode, then the diatonic convrtr will only select those whole tones that are part of the current key's maj/minor scale?

Thanks a bunch, I'm very curious about this combo.
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ericcoleridge wrote:

So, how is this working out? Is it still working well?

Yes.
ericcoleridge wrote:

Did you panel mount a switch to select between maj or minor scale from your Diatonic Convertor? In the CGS document, there is simply an input labeled maj/minor. I guess this is a trigger type switch?

You're right - it's a logical (gate) type of input. I will probably normal a switch (SPDT tied to +10v and ground) to the input jack so it can be selected manually, but its nice to be able to randomly toggle it with an LFO, for instance.
ericcoleridge wrote:

Can you say anything about how the Quantizer modes and Diatonic Convtr modes interact with one another? i.e. there's whole, half, and quarter steps, whose voltage steps I think translate to whole tones(6), semitones (12), and quartertones (24)?

Then the Diatonic Converter further drills down the possible outputs to notes of minor or major scales? So, if the quantizer is in whole tone mode, then the diatonic convrtr will only select those whole tones that are part of the current key's maj/minor scale?


They don't interact at all, really. I'm using the A/D front end of the quantizer to drive it, in parallel with the chromatic D/A converter. I have a diatonic converter output, and a chromatic output. The diatonic output can be either major or minor, and the chromatic output can be switch selected to be half-step, whole-step, or fourths. The A/D converter changes state every 1/12 volt, so every increase by that amount on the input moved the diatonic output up one note of the major.minor scale. However, the chromatic output goes up 1/2 step for every 1/12 volt (which is the whole idea - no matter what the input, the output changes in 1/12volt quanta) Very Happy

When the chromatic output is switched to whole-step, the output effectively one changes every 2/12 volts, and when switched to fourths output, every 4/12 volts. Just a coarser quantization - the output doesn't change as frequently with sweeping voltage input. Meanwhile the diatonic output remains as before.

So for instance, if I feed it a slowly rising ramp voltage, the chromatic output will stairstep up in 1/12 volt increments as the input reaches those values. The diatonic output will stairstep in diatonic increments ie; 0 volts, 2/12 volts, 4/12 volts, 5/12volts, 7/12 volts 9/12 volts, 11/12 volts, and 1 volt (C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C), while the chromatic output just steps from 0 volts to 8/12 volts in 1/12 volt increments. So the diatonic output increases from 0 volts to 1 volt in 8 steps while the chomatic output goes from 0 volts to 8/12 volts in 8 steps. Clear as mud. Shocked
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds great to me.
If I had to choose one or the other, which would you go for? I'm thinking I might look into the chromatic. That's the Ray Wilson one yeah?

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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

guitarfool wrote:
I hooked wires on the marked ends of R2, R8, R11, R15, R20 and R27 to do this. Worked a treat. Very Happy


How did you do this exactly? I've tried to hot wire a board in this fashion before and had a difficult time. Do you have a photo you wouldn't mind sharing? Do you actually get the wire to fit into the pad along with the resistor lead or do you leave the resistor high enough off the board to leave enough of its lead exposed to wrap and solder a wire right there on top of the board?

I have another question about the Diatonic Converter that I'll ask on the CGS forum, but in this instance, do you still have the original MFOS Quantizer outputs alongside the Diatonic Converter outputs? In other words, you don't lose the Quantizer outputs alone if you ever wanted to use just those, right? Doesn't seem as though this would be the case but would like to make sure.

Thanks!
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
guitarfool wrote:
I hooked wires on the marked ends of R2, R8, R11, R15, R20 and R27 to do this. Worked a treat. Very Happy


How did you do this exactly?


Pretty much the way it looks in the drawing. After populating the board, I took wires stripped at both ends (like they were to be soldered through a hole to a pad), but bend the one end into a hook, and slip the hook under the resistor lead in between the resistor body and where it goes through the hole. There's no heat issue soldering like this with resistors and ceramic caps, BTW.

numbertalk wrote:
I have another question about the Diatonic Converter that I'll ask on the CGS forum, but in this instance, do you still have the original MFOS Quantizer outputs alongside the Diatonic Converter outputs? In other words, you don't lose the Quantizer outputs alone if you ever wanted to use just those, right? Doesn't seem as though this would be the case but would like to make sure.


Yes, I still have the original quantizer outputs as well. Bear in mind (as I explained earlier) That the 2 don't "track" each other per se; as the chromatic (MFOS) output goes up each half-step, the CGS diatonic output goes up a scale step.


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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation and photo!!

guitarfool wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
guitarfool wrote:
I hooked wires on the marked ends of R2, R8, R11, R15, R20 and R27 to do this. Worked a treat. Very Happy


How did you do this exactly?


Pretty much the way it looks in the drawing. After populating the board, I took wires stripped at both ends (like they were to be soldered through a hole to a pad), but bend the one end into a hook, and slip the hook under the resistor lead in between the resistor body and where it goes through the hole. There's no heat issue soldering like this with resistors and ceramic caps, BTW.

numbertalk wrote:
I have another question about the Diatonic Converter that I'll ask on the CGS forum, but in this instance, do you still have the original MFOS Quantizer outputs alongside the Diatonic Converter outputs? In other words, you don't lose the Quantizer outputs alone if you ever wanted to use just those, right? Doesn't seem as though this would be the case but would like to make sure.


Yes, I still have the original quantizer outputs as well. Bear in mind (as I explained earlier) That the 2 don't "track" each other per se; as the chromatic (MFOS) output goes up each half-step, the CGS diatonic output goes up a scale step.
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also one more question - with the diatonic circuit driven by the quantizer here, with how you have it configured, it sounds like the only places the diatonic board breaks out to the panel is for the 1-2 outputs and Maj/Min switch and jack, is that right?
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
Also one more question - with the diatonic circuit driven by the quantizer here, with how you have it configured, it sounds like the only places the diatonic board breaks out to the panel is for the 1-2 outputs and Maj/Min switch and jack, is that right?


Close. Voltage input (with attenuator), offset control (manual voltage input, same as "inital v" on the MFOS website panel), toggle switch to select between half step, whole step and fourths, and output (all for the MFOS quantizer board). For the diatonic part, a switch to manually select major/minor, jack for major/minor select, and diatonic output.

Below is a preliminary layout for my dotcom panel.


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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks so much for all the info! One more question - for the diatonic Maj/Min what is the configuration - do you get Maj on a pos part of the input pulse (or when the toggle switch connects the Maj/Min input to +15V) or would that engage Minor mode?

Sorry, actually another question - for the MFOS switch, instead of the 2 switches I see you have 1 - is this an ON-ON-ON DPDT? If so, how do you have it wired?

Also what value and taper pot did you use for the voltage input attenuator?

Thanks again.

guitarfool wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
Also one more question - with the diatonic circuit driven by the quantizer here, with how you have it configured, it sounds like the only places the diatonic board breaks out to the panel is for the 1-2 outputs and Maj/Min switch and jack, is that right?


Close. Voltage input (with attenuator), offset control (manual voltage input, same as "inital v" on the MFOS website panel), toggle switch to select between half step, whole step and fourths, and output (all for the MFOS quantizer board). For the diatonic part, a switch to manually select major/minor, jack for major/minor select, and diatonic output.

Below is a preliminary layout for my dotcom panel.
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
One more question - for the diatonic Maj/Min what is the configuration - do you get Maj on a pos part of the input pulse (or when the toggle switch connects the Maj/Min input to +15V) or would that engage Minor mode?


Minor when the Maj/Min input is high, Major when it's low. So Major is kind of the default (no input) if you only wired a jack directly to that point on Ken's card.

numbertalk wrote:
Sorry, actually another question - for the MFOS switch, instead of the 2 switches I see you have 1 - is this an ON-ON-ON DPDT? If so, how do you have it wired?


I used an ON-ON-ON DPDT switch used as Matthias so nicely explains on his website (it's in one of the other threads around here somewhere). It helps to understand how the switch works, and use an ohmmeter or continuity checker on the switch as you toggle it to make sure you have it right. The picture below shows what the connections I used to the MFOS card. Any ON-ON-ON DPDT switch can be wired like this, but you may have to swap sides (or flip the orientation of the switch) to get the right results.

numbertalk wrote:
Also what value and taper pot did you use for the voltage input attenuator?


50k linear taper. Not critical, a 20k or 25k would also work. Or even a 100k, but since the input it's feeding is 100k, the response of the pot is not so linear anymore.


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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks again so much. I think I'm set and very excited to build this!
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funkyfarm



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So, is this little beast serious enough to drive your favorite sequencer v/oct output ?

Very Happy
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funkyfarm wrote:
So, is this little beast serious enough to drive your favorite sequencer v/oct output ?

Very Happy


Yes. I used 1% resistors for the R/2R (100k & 200k), and used 0.01% in the diatonic converter. They both sound fine to my ears, although I'm using 0.01% in the second one I'm building. Very Happy

I probably should do a good definitive test for this. I'm thinking that having a sequencer tuned to notes of a major or minor triad (through the diatonic converter) controlling one oscillator, and a drone oscillator tuned to the tonic?
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funkyfarm



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,
I've build mine with hand-matched 100k and 200k resistors, roughly 0,1% 0,2%, but I have a problem (maybe wrong resistor value somewhere)

If I put 0V and 1V, I get 0,11 or more and hardly 0,786v (for 1V quantisation)
I've changed R13 from 75k (12V psu) to 51k (15V psu), and it's worth...0,560...

i've seen no note about R30. i can read :
R30=75k (3 octaves)
R30=43k (4 octaves)
[edit]it sets the range of Initial V potentiometer.

Did you struggle a long time with calibration ?

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/VOLTAGEQUANTIZER/VOLTAGEQUANTIZER.php

Last edited by funkyfarm on Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funkyfarm wrote:
Hi,
I've build mine with hand-matched 100k and 200k resistors, roughly 0,1% 0,2%, but I have a problem (maybe wrong resistor value somewhere)

If I put 0V and 1V, I get 0,11 or more and hardly 0,786v (for 1V quantisation)
I've changed R13 from 75k (12V psu) to 51k (15V psu), and it's worth...0,560...

That is probably the "Initial V", but I don't know if mine goes to 0 volts either. It doesn't really matter too much. You just want the output to only change in jumps of 0.0833 volts. But if you change the input by 1 volt (an octave), the output should be 1 volt higher as well.

funkyfarm wrote:

i've seen no note abot R30 (output stage). i can read :
R30=75k (3 octaves)
R30=43k (4 octaves)
I guess it sets the overall output range.

What did you choose ? no need for 5V (sequencer) ?

Yes, it sets the overall range of the manual pot (Initial V). I used 75k I think.

funkyfarm wrote:

Did you struggle a long time with calibration ?


No, it was pretty easy. I plugged the output into a (well calibrated) VCO and adjusted it by ear. In other words, I adjusted it until I got a chromatic scale with varying input voltage.
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funkyfarm



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool !

that is much appreciated.

i'll go back to it this week ; i'll try trimming it by ear with a midi sequence.
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funkyfarm



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is it running on +/-15 volts psu ?
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funkyfarm wrote:
Is it running on +/-15 volts psu ?


Yes.
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