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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:58 am Post subject:
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| goikem wrote: | hi fonik- i searched your website and here for a fpd file for the faceplate (i really like it), and haven't found it. are you sharing?
thanks, matthew |
done.
http://www.modular.fonik.de/Page46.html
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matthias
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Rvlt
Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject:
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hi everyone,
I found an error in the X-Pan BOM: Resistors 41, 42, 43 and 44 must be 100k and NOT 47k (schematic is right, but BOM says R41-R54 = 47k).
I had the same problem as Funky40, but now it's working fine.
btw, anyone managed to get the X-Pan working with +/- 12V?
At +/- 15V it's working but I get no sound when it's connected to my +/- 12V PSU. I think I have to change some resistor values .... ?? |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject:
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| Rvlt wrote: | hi everyone,
I found an error in the X-Pan BOM: Resistors 41, 42, 43 and 44 must be 100k and NOT 47k (schematic is right, but BOM says R41-R54 = 47k).
I had the same problem as Funky40, but now it's working fine. |
thank you so much for thiat pointer! i will correct the BOM today.
and you are right about the schematic. the circuit diagramm is the original, the BOM is edited so could contain errors (it shall not of course!).
this issue reminds me of the EFM stuff. it can become annoying.
| Quote: | btw, anyone managed to get the X-Pan working with +/- 12V?
At +/- 15V it's working but I get no sound when it's connected to my +/- 12V PSU. I think I have to change some resistor values .... ?? |
i will try tonight. i actually cannot see why it shouldn't work with 12V!?
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matthias
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject:
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| Rvlt wrote: | hi everyone,
I found an error in the X-Pan BOM: Resistors 41, 42, 43 and 44 must be 100k and NOT 47k (schematic is right, but BOM says R41-R54 = 47k).
I had the same problem as Funky40, but now it's working fine.
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Huh!,damn fuck,thats why i hate those DIY DS PCB's.
Waste of time to fix that on 10pcb's,pff.. 
BOM's and list sucks,make a component layout with the values writed into it and not r4,c8 etc..,how more intervals how more risk to errors,its well known.
It takes the same time to search for r4,rx and rz as to search all 100k for example on a pcb so
Lists are good to see how much u have to order,but not as a refference to
build!
 |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:06 am Post subject:
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| TekniK wrote: | | Rvlt wrote: | hi everyone,
I found an error in the X-Pan BOM: Resistors 41, 42, 43 and 44 must be 100k and NOT 47k (schematic is right, but BOM says R41-R54 = 47k).
I had the same problem as Funky40, but now it's working fine.
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Huh!,damn fuck,thats why i hate those DIY DS PCB's.
Waste of time to fix that on 10pcb's,pff.. |
i absolutely understand your anger about that. i am very sorry.
| Quote: | | BOM's and list sucks,make a component layout with the values writed into it and not r4,c8 etc..,how more intervals how more risk to errors,its well known. |
i can see the point in it. just numbering the parts makes the board more generic, though. you could easily change parts values afterwards by editing the BOM (field changes).
but i take your point. for the next project i will try to incorporate a silkscreen of the PCB into the documentation containing the values...
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matthias
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gwaidan
Joined: Mar 07, 2009
Posts: 53
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:41 am Post subject:
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| Hi, are there any boards still available? I'd really like to get one of each board if possble... |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:48 am Post subject:
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| gwaidan wrote: | | Hi, are there any boards still available? I'd really like to get one of each board if possble... |
the PS3100 PCBs are sold out, some x-panner boards are left. i think i will reorder some PS3100 next month.
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matthias
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject:
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| Rvlt wrote: | hi everyone,
I found an error in the X-Pan BOM: Resistors 41, 42, 43 and 44 must be 100k and NOT 47k (schematic is right, but BOM says R41-R54 = 47k).
I had the same problem as Funky40, but now it's working fine.
btw, anyone managed to get the X-Pan working with +/- 12V?
At +/- 15V it's working but I get no sound when it's connected to my +/- 12V PSU. I think I have to change some resistor values .... ?? |
thanks alot !
I fixed my X-Pan module, and its working fine now.
It's another nice FM experimentation Module. |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject:
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mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
but i am glad it works now, mr funky.
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matthias
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject:
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| fonik wrote: | | mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. |
haha, de nada
| fonik wrote: | | but i am glad it works now, mr funky. |
Yeah me too, and thanks again.
I think there are quite some nice patch possibilytis with this one.
Might be fun to have two of it  |
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Rvlt
Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 4:06 am Post subject:
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| Rvlt wrote: |
btw, anyone managed to get the X-Pan working with +/- 12V?
At +/- 15V it's working but I get no sound when it's connected to my +/- 12V PSU. I think I have to change some resistor values .... ??
| fonik wrote: |
i will try tonight. i actually cannot see why it shouldn't work with 12V!? |
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Hey fonik,
did you find time to try it out?
Before I changed R41-44 to 100k AND using +/-12V the only sound coming from the X-Pan was the "wrong" VCA-Channel (IC1 D). So I **guess** it's only a matter of choosing the right values for transistor gain... But what resistors and what values? |
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Rvlt
Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject:
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Uups,
I think I found another mistake in the BOM:
CV section:
R53, R54, R57 and R58 should be 100k (NOT 47k)
Output section:
R45-R52 should also be 100k (NOT 47k)
I changed that, but I think there's not much of a difference..
==========
+/- 12V solution:
I changed R9, R20, R31 and R41 to 78,7k and now the behaviour is the same as with +/-15V. |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject:
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| Rvlt wrote: | Uups,
I think I found another mistake in the BOM:
CV section:
R53, R54, R57 and R58 should be 100k (NOT 47k)
Output section:
R45-R52 should also be 100k (NOT 47k)
I changed that, but I think there's not much of a difference.. |
actually no difference at all (besides the range of the manual pot).
however thanks for pointing this, will be corrected soon.
| Quote: |
+/- 12V solution:
I changed R9, R20, R31 and R41 to 78,7k and now the behaviour is the same as with +/-15V. |
R42 instead of R41
thanks for telling us.
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matthias
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject:
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| Rvlt wrote: | Uups,
I think I found another mistake in the BOM:
CV section:
R53, R54, R57 and R58 should be 100k (NOT 47k)
Output section:
R45-R52 should also be 100k (NOT 47k)
I changed that, but I think there's not much of a difference..
. |
plz,i almost did get an heart-attack here
 |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject:
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| TekniK wrote: | | plz,i almost did get an heart-attack here |
me too.
it is not the 1st time i did a PCB run and building docs, as you all might know, and all went quite fine, i would say. i don't know what happened to the panner docs 
(BTW new edition of building docs just uploaded - sorry for the inconvenience)
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matthias
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Rvlt
Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:40 am Post subject:
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| fonik wrote: |
R42 instead of R41
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oh, those mistakes ... 
btw, I noticed i fairly high amount of the CV-signal (DC) present at the audio outputs. I saw it on the meters of my mixing desk, even when there was nothing connected at the audio-in.
Or hear it when you modulate the xpan with a square or sawtooth: "click click click ..."
anyone knows how to get rid of it?
I read about ac-coupling and put a cap at the output, but dc was still there...
ok, thanks |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:44 am Post subject:
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| Rvlt wrote: | | fonik wrote: |
R42 instead of R41
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oh, those mistakes ...
btw, I noticed i fairly high amount of the CV-signal (DC) present at the audio outputs. I saw it on the meters of my mixing desk, even when there was nothing connected at the audio-in.
Or hear it when you modulate the xpan with a square or sawtooth: "click click click ..."
anyone knows how to get rid of it?
I read about ac-coupling and put a cap at the output, but dc was still there...
ok, thanks |
Ok,stop plz now amgonna throw away all this pcb's for garbage |
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LektroiD
Joined: Aug 23, 2008
Posts: 1019
Location: Scottish Borders
Audio files: 2
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:37 am Post subject:
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| TekniK wrote: | | Rvlt wrote: | | fonik wrote: |
R42 instead of R41
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oh, those mistakes ...
btw, I noticed i fairly high amount of the CV-signal (DC) present at the audio outputs. I saw it on the meters of my mixing desk, even when there was nothing connected at the audio-in.
Or hear it when you modulate the xpan with a square or sawtooth: "click click click ..."
anyone knows how to get rid of it?
I read about ac-coupling and put a cap at the output, but dc was still there...
ok, thanks |
Ok,stop plz now amgonna throw away all this pcb's for garbage |
Just wait until the new docs are posted, or throw them My way, I'll gladly pay you the postal fare for them
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LektroiD
Last edited by LektroiD on Tue May 19, 2009 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:02 am Post subject:
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@rvlt
for now i don't know.
to remove DC you could in any case at the output add a say 22uF cap followed by a 100k to GND. but that would be a workaround. however this is not a top notch VCA system but a dirty solution originally meant as expansion for the resonators. therefor i left oft some trimmers.
i tested and built it for 15V operation and could not find recognizable offset on the output.
again, we will find a solution for your problem.
@teknik
i absolutely understand that you are totaly pissed off by now. i still could refund you, if desired. just let me know. the last thing i wanted to happen was to take the fun out of it - too late, it happened.
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matthias
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject:
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rvlt, i measured the outputs of the panner again tonight. both show almost no offset at all, as long as no modulation source is connected. when i move the manual pan control or use a LFO i can measure a absolute max. negative offset up to -0.5V. that doesn't hurt me.
for now i would suggest the filter method: cap + resistor to GND (see above).
i will think about it. you are running it at 12V?
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matthias
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject:
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| fonik wrote: |
@teknik
i absolutely understand that you are totaly pissed off by now. i still could refund you, if desired. just let me know. the last thing i wanted to happen was to take the fun out of it - too late, it happened. |
hey i was jokin' mate, u should know me now..
but i hope i don't have those offsets ofcource
damn,always problems with those germans (since WWI) |
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Rvlt
Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject:
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| fonik wrote: | rvlt, i measured the outputs of the panner again tonight. both show almost no offset at all, as long as no modulation source is connected. when i move the manual pan control or use a LFO i can measure a absolute max. negative offset up to -0.5V. that doesn't hurt me.
for now i would suggest the filter method: cap + resistor to GND (see above).
i will think about it. you are running it at 12V? |
hey fonik,
thanks for your support.
yes, I got two xpanner working at 12V.
I tried a 22uF cap in series together with 82k resistor to gnd (100k were all gone), but lfo-signal was still present at the audio-out.
I will (temporarily) try with 15V tomorrow and let you know ... |
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gwaidan
Joined: Mar 07, 2009
Posts: 53
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:12 am Post subject:
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Sorry if this seems a bit basic or it's been thought of before, but I've thought of a possible cause of the offset problem...
What I think is happening here is that when there is no audio input in the panner circuit the base of each input transistor is connected to ground via a 1k resistor but the base of each reference transistor is connected directly to ground-as the bias current through the 1K resistor leads to a voltage drop there is an offset voltage between the two bases, giving a difference in collector currents (and differential amplifier terminal voltages) which is modulated by the control voltage to create audible feeedthrough.
If this is correct then breaking the tracks connecting the bases of Q2, Q5, Q8 and Q11 to ground and soldering a 1k resistor across each break should make a difference...
(edited to minimise waffle)
Last edited by gwaidan on Wed May 20, 2009 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:02 am Post subject:
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