NMG2 Open Source Editor

G2Psy · Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:59 pm Post subject:

IOS Apps do control synths with old fashioned midi, like the brilliant Step Sequencer ST-S01 by SchoSoft. Not sure about usb-midi. Would serial midi be OK?

B

brunov · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:22 am Post subject:

I did a little digging and found some info about usb interfacing with iOS devices

http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/13605/how-to-get-started-with-interfacing-usb-devices-to-ipad

http://iorelay.ning.com/forum/topics/xcode-for-usb-or-rs232

http://www.cultofmac.com/178093/the-future-of-apples-dock-connector-feature/

So, looks like Apple closed that interface for commercial reasons. Sad

That leaves Midi or Wifi.

With Midi you could set up a limited communication. You can send patches using sysex and cc messages.

With Wifi you need to connect to some computer that has the actual usb connection with the G2.

I implemented both these things in the os editor, so that should be possible but far from ideal.

I doubt it will ever be possible to directly connect an Ipad to a G2, unless Apple changes there policy about the usb interface.

Don't know yet but maybe an Android tablet or Windows Surface.

brunov · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:06 am Post subject:

But having said all that, I'll try and compile it for iOS anyway. Probably will get all kinds of troubles with performance and midi/wifi, we'll see...

G2Psy · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:59 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the research, seems like Apple don't want anyone accessing USB. If you want to compile for midi I can test midi over wifi. But it does sound limited without realtime patching. Also, I don't know how you can distribute it without the Apple store.

Would be interesting to see how feasible it is to patching cables on a tablet.

Cheers,
B

anigbrowl · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject:

I hope to try it on a Windows surface Pro tablet, since many of them have stylus as well as finger touch options, and it should work without any changes necessary.

brunov · Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:48 am Post subject:

I'll be interested to hear if it works on a surface tablet. But personally I think the user interface has to be redesigned for use on a tablet.

Maybe there are some tablet applications already that have a similar complex user interface from which we could get some ideas.

In case of the IPad, I think wireless is the way to go.

One option could be, as someone suggested on this thread earlier, to have a raspberry running on linux connected to the g2, which could run a g2-usb-network-server process, and the ipad as a network client.

And another interesting option in the making is what I found here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-if-wi-fi-media-agnostic-ma-use-spec,24200.html

If I understand correctly, lets you have the usb-protocoll over wireless, which maybe could bypass Apples restrictions on the USB port.

First have to get it to compile for iOS of course...

brunov · Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:41 am Post subject:

Ok, got a big part of the code to run in the iPad simulator. Smile

I can load a patch, display it and do a bit of zooming. Seems network is available also but haven't tested it yet.

The graphics are quite ugly, I hope this has something to do with the simulator. The fonts don't seem to scale properly. And it is slow! as expected.

But it's a start...

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dorremifasol · Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:48 am Post subject:

Like!

Lfohead · Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:34 am Post subject:

Nice work!

A idea struck me, which is very useful.. Dont want to bother you with it, but if you feel like you can make it and have the energy for it and you are going to have fun making it.. Would be so powerfull, and i think many will greatly appreciate it..

The function "Exclude From Mutation" , but instead "Exclude Parameter From Mutation".. Would be much more effective..

Once again amazing work! Smile

G2Psy · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:40 pm Post subject:

Great work! It looks "early Ableton".

B

anigbrowl · Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject:

brunov · Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:52 pm Post subject:

In theory it could be done to build an ipad g2 editor, but there's still a lot that has to be done.

In theory it should be possible to make one for android also, because the new Delphi compiler a have can build applciations for windows, osx, ios and android, from the same base code.

I've tested a bit more with the ios compilation and I was able to make a network connection to a g2-server program on my windows machine from the ipad simulator and load patches/change parameters etc.

Biggest problem is the performance, network communication is not fast enough for all the led and volume messages that are exchanged and graphics rendering is slow, then you have to realize that on the ipad itself it will perform even slower, so a lot of optimizations are needed.

The graphics are ugly because on the ios simulator there is no anti aliasing.

So because there is a "proof of concept", I would like to think about the user interface of a g2-touch-screen editor first, wether it's a iOS/Android or Windows surface application can be decided later on.

I've made a concept application, to try some things out. It's not finished of course, you can see it in the screenshot.

The goal is to be able to make patches on a relatively small screen with your fingers.

So on top I would like to leave the four slotstrips with the slot functions that are used the most, like patch volume, variation selection and so on.

On the bottom left you can select a zoom setting. I think you need about 3. One zoom to get an overall view of the patch, one to zoom in on a module and one 1:1 view.

On the bottom right you can select the patch location. I think the horizontal bar which devides VA/FX in the original editor doesn't work on a small touch-screen so with these buttons you can set the main window on VA or FX or Patch settins.

Then on the right side you have a multi-functional panel. Can be used to load patches, add modules, set parameters and so on.

One important function in this panel is Module-Navigate. It will show a list of all the modules, sorted by column/row. So you can easily scroll through the list an when you tap a module the main window will focus on this module.

So that are some ideas I'm working on.

About your question about compound modules, the problem with those is that its not possible to store the settings for a compound control in a Patch. The patch file cannot be extended because that would alse need a change in the G2 firmware.

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brunov · Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:57 pm Post subject:

I've watched the video of the g1 and g2 edtors on the windows surface tablet. That made me think about some things. It would definitely be an improvement if you can zoom in on the patch, al the knobs should be made bigger.

Another thing that doesn't seem to work on a touch screen is dragging cables.

What I think that I'll do to try and make an interface in which as much tasks as possible can be done by max two finger points on the screen.

In the first finger pointing action you select an object, and depending on the object the inerface goes into a certain mode.

For example you point to a connector and the interface goes into cable drawing mode.

The scond finger pointing action results in a change depending on the current operating mode.

So if it's into cable drawing mode and you point to another connector, a cable is created.

You see an example in the screen shots. In "G2Touchscreen2" I've made some patch and I point to connector BP on Fltmulti1.

The result you see on screenshot "G2Touchscreen3", a small yellow rectangle opens up, indicating that you are in cable drawing mode.

The rectangle has three buttons, on the left you see "sv8-11", "OscshpB1". These are the existing cables on connector BP. If my second point is on one of these buttons, the corresponding cable is deleted.

Or if my second point is on button "Cancel", that would cancel cable drawing mode.

Or my second point is on any other connector in the patch, that would create a cable from the first pointed at connector to the second.

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grimley · Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject:

Very happy to see you are still working on this. I check in now and again to see what progress is being made. Funny because watching the videos you mentioned above is what made me think to check in today.
Anyway, I think a touch enabled app is an excellent idea. I can imagine a touch screen placed above the G2 keyboard being a very satisfying experience, removing the disconnect between the software editor and the G2 hardware.

brunov · Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:08 pm Post subject:

Yes, I don't have a touchscreen device yet, but I think I would go for a windows device, because I would expect the least amount of trouble with my projects, but the ones with the heavy duty processors are still expensive...

I got the new editor working on the hakintosch though, without too much effort! Personally I think the Delphi people did a good job, making a multi platform compiler. They go a lot of critisim but and it took a couple of versions, but now it seems to work. I'm using libsub-1.0.8 on Mountain lion.

Here are some screenshots, the only thing is that the applications don't look the same on different platforms. Because I mainly develop on Windows, that version look a bit better now.

The second screenshot is the "patch manager" I'm working on.

I think I will set up an internet page so everyone who is interested can test the application and maybe participate with making some of the graphics.

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accumulate · Joined: Jun 11, 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Reading, UK

Wow! I hadn’t checked this forum for a while but development of a touchpad based editor would be BIG!

I’d vote Ipad as I have one and probably most others do but I’m biased. I’d also be willing to pay quite a sum for an editor. Your two finger operation patching sounds great – and I think graphics look ok!

Keep up good work

brunov · Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:42 pm Post subject:

The problem with the ipad at the moment is that we are not allowed by apple to use the usb connector. At least that is what I found searching for examples on the internet. There is a developement to enable usb protocol over wifi, that might be a solution, but we would have to wait until its ready, and then we would have to figure out how to use it.

Meanwhile here are some more screenshots. I've made a sidewindow to connect a midi controller to a parameter. That is the midi-learning functionality. All the parameter settings will be on that side panel and I will make a side panel for module settings too.

On the scond, there are the patch settings for all four slots in one window. With the keyboard you will be able to set the split keyboard range for a slot. So really a lot of controls in this window.

I'll be busy with some other things next week but hopefully I will get a prototype ready in a month or so.

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anigbrowl · Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:23 pm Post subject:

brunov · Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:11 am Post subject:

Ah, yes you are right. That may be possible. Hadn 't thought of that. You would have to think of a format to store the patch data in the notes, and some code to read/write from it. Think it would be quite some work to make it, but possible.

grimley · Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject:

LektroiD · Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:36 pm Post subject:

I'm looking at these screen shots and thinking, if this was a standalone app with full audio (like the G2 demo), rather than an editor, it would be the best app ever to be released on the iPad.

Problem with interfacing via MIDI is the connectors. My iPad has the thunderbolt connector, but no company that I know of has made an interface that works with the current generation iPad connectors. Bluetooth is definitely the way forward...

RETRIVOX · Joined: Jan 26, 2011 Posts: 12 Location: L.A. Mexico Moscow

Hi, Brunov! Impressed of your work! Using it with two instances of G2m on pc and it is really great! Waiting for android devices release!

blue hell · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject:

brunov · Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:59 am Post subject:

Hey Jan,

this is really impressive! Amazing you made this in such a short time. I'm listening to your noodle recording right now.

I'm close to releasing a first beta of the new g2 editor. Maybe the gui part of the editor might be useful for your project also.

grimley · Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject:

Brunov,
How do the LEDs on the output modules work? Are they responding to feedback from the synth? If so, would it be possible to create an oscilloscope module, or add an oscilloscope to the output module?