2nd option (did not work out so well with the symplSEQ): clock to seqswitch I/O, clock to divider, /8 divided output to seqswitch's clock in, seqswitch outputs to sequencers. i would have expected that 8 clocks would go to the 1st sequencer, then the next 8 clocks to the 2nd sequencer. at least that's what i experienced with my ADC sequencers when i tried this setup weeks ago. no i see 1 step overlap! i think this is what diablojoy anticipated!?
It does sound like it Matthias
the issue as i originally considered it, is due to the minimum pulse requirement of the 4017's of 70nsec
and the switching time of the DG412 in the sequential switch around 160-200 nsec all up there became the possibility of an acceptably long enough pulse to get through erronously to the preceding sequencer's 4017 before switching has finished
I added in some delay using 4 sections of a cd40106 as straight buffers giving approx 240 nsecs of delay to the switched clock signal in my sequential switch to overcome this possibility .If you decided you wanted to use the sequencers this way it should not be too difficult to add a small board to your sequential switch module that you could switch in and out of cct as required or even just leave it in. I dont think any one would notice a quarter of a micro second delay on anything . anyway as i still havent finished my build and if you were willing to breadboard it , it would be interesting to find out if my solution actually fixes the issue.
cheers _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
here i run two symplSEQs together with a seqswitch switching the clock between the sequencers to create a 16-step sequence. the odd thing is that it does not work with the internal clock yet. will have to figure it out... meanwhile i use an external clock.
CVs get summes and control a 4046 VCO via a simple quantizer (boogdish). the gates of one sequencer control the cutoff of a SEM style VCF:
_________________
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source
Wiring all finished finally
panel marking and testing to go
going to try out lazertran jet and spray laquer
over the top , will see how that goes.
couple of pics
no time to commence testing now gotta go earn some money
been five years since i last did crewing hope i dont have a heart attack.
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sympleseq64 wiring.jpg
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_________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
Wiring all finished finally
panel marking and testing to go
going to try out lazertran jet and spray laquer
over the top , will see how that goes.
couple of pics
no time to commence testing now gotta go earn some money
been five years since i last did crewing hope i dont have a heart attack.
Amazing job, diablojoy... you bring a whole new meaning to "symple"
ah gee thanks guys !
survived last night no heart attack though i thought i would throw up at one point hauling multicores across the arena floor
insane, oh hell yes, have been officially for last 20 years anyway.
you can never have enough ridiculousnessness-ness
I hope it will end up being like a classic lamborgini stupid , ridiculous , crazy but beautifull so thanks for that one matthias
now its just gotta work _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
Oh...maybe that's the answer...Run all the resets from the Sequencers through a mixer circuit and have THEM clock the first Seqswitch. Since only one Seq is playing at a time, the reset of that sequencer will send the clock signal of when to switch the master clock over to the next sequencer.
a question from a newbee where is the reset output on the logic board ??
i have try the fonik wiring with 2 seqwitch and 2 sympleseq
1a1b2a2b....... it works with the same clock plug in the seqs switch to move the direction of the steps and cv out
i want to try your matrix seq but i don't know where to wire the reset ,)
Joined: Nov 22, 2009 Posts: 667 Location: Frederick, MD
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject:
franckboxe wrote:
Quote:
Oh...maybe that's the answer...Run all the resets from the Sequencers through a mixer circuit and have THEM clock the first Seqswitch. Since only one Seq is playing at a time, the reset of that sequencer will send the clock signal of when to switch the master clock over to the next sequencer.
a question from a newbee where is the reset output on the logic board ??
You didn't think that I had actually gotten around to trying to find where on the PCB I'd hook it up, did you?
I don't think there is a dedicated Reset out on the logic board. Technically (again, I'm not 100% sure, but from looking at the schematics) the reset signal comes from the switches when they are in the down position as shown on the schematics (the dotted line). That connects to the 3rd pin up on the connector header (again, as seen on the schematics). On the logic board, this "output", which is just a +V signal, goes into D2, connects to one leg of R6, and then to pin 15 of the 4017 chip.
If that's correct, then the "Reset In" pad also connects to that path and would serve as a Reset out as well.
Yes, the reset in pad is the exact same as the reset out Any of the pads labelled "RST" on the logic board should work to get the reset signal from!
Good luck!
PS: I'm actually developing a module that makes it super easy to chain sympleSEQ into one big sequencer (and do other fun things, like basic quantizing and pattern arrangement), if you care to check it out. I've started a development thread here. It will be available for preorder soon!
all these methods are from Diablojoy , emdot_ambient and Fonik , great people who help me to understand all that stuff .. my english is basic , i hope there is not too much confusion
method with resets
2 fonik seqswitch ( fonik A and B ) + 2 sympleseq ( seq A & B ) + multiples + mixer for gates + clock from moon modular 553 , clock synchronize via midi by protools
resets out from seq A & B ( with diodes no 40106 ) plug in Clock in fonik A and fonik B
clock moon modular in O/I fonik A
I/O 1 & 2 fonik A plug in clock in symple seq A & B
cv out 1 & 2 plug in I/O 1 & 2 fonik B
O/I fonik B in vco
gate seq A & B out in mixer ; mix out in adsr and vca ( optional )
the problem is that i just get 7+7 steps
each time the reset send a pulse the symple seq go to step one and start playing at step 2 .
and it's the same when i reset manualy the sequencer it always start at step 2 ...
method with divider
2 fonik seqswitch ( fonik A and B ) + 2 sympleseq ( seq A & B ) + multiples + mixer for gates + clock from moon modular 553 + clock divider
from my novation bass station ( i can get until 1 , 2 , 3 & 4 bars division ) all the clocks synchronize via midi by protools
bass station Divider plug in Clock in fonik A and fonik B
clock moon modular plug in O/I fonik A
I/O 1 & 2 fonik A plug in clock in symple seq A & B
cv out 1 & 2 plug in I/O 1 & 2 fonik B
O/I fonik B in vco
gate seq A & B out in mixer ; mix out in adsr and vca ( optional )
with the divider of the bassstation i can choose the lenght of each seqs before it switch to the other : 8 A+ 8 B or 16A + 16B etc...
and with the clock from moon modular i can also divide the pulse :
lots of combinations
just one problem i hear the transition between the last step of the seq and the first step of the other seq when it switch , there is an overlap between the last and first step ... i read something about that by Diablojoy it's a bit technical for me
method with one clock for everybody
2 fonik seqswitch ( fonik A and B ) + 2 sympleseq ( seq A & B ) + multiples + mixer for gates + clock from moon modular 553 , clock synchronize via midi by protools
Clock plug in Clock in fonik A and fonik B
Clock plugin O/I fonik A
I/O 1 & 2 fonik A plug in clock in symple seq A & B
cv out 1 & 2 plug in I/O 1 & 2 fonik B
O/I fonik B in vco
gate seq A & B out in mixer ; mix out in adsr and vca ( optional )
i get 16 steps : 1A 1B 2A 2B 3A 3B 4A 4B 5A 5B 6A 6B 7A 7B 8A 8B
work like a charm no problems the more simple solution but less possibilities than the others one .
had a rather catastrophic failure on the power supply i was using
putting +25 volts through everything
that has slowed me down somewhat and i am still working through the fallout from that one. Bad enough but not quite as bad as i first thought.
one thing i did manage to work out so far was that i did not take into account the propagation delay's of the CGS009 VC Divider I am using
so I am getting double stepping at the moment
will try adding another small delay into the clock path today. _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
seems like i am chasing my own tail with this
adding in even more delay to the clock pulses is not solving the issue
i can see the little bastard of a pulse on my scope on the switching point
but as i add more delays the clock pulse also gets stretched a little bit
which i dont want .
so i will try another approach
using 2 x cd4081 quad AND gates, i will AND the switched clock pulse sent to each sequencer with the original clock . That should put paid to this
annoying little problem once and for all.
should have thought of it sooner. _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
Wow, sounds like you have got your hands full with this monster! haha. I hope you get it running good soon
Any chance you'll be posting a video or sound clips of it in action when that happens? _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
bugger... took a real close look at that extra pulse
As best as i can judge it lines up with the start of the next clock pulse going in
so ANDing will not work it would just be repeated
another thing is that it's about 50 micro seconds long, way way longer than the couple of hundred nano seconds i was expecting.
no wonder delaying the switched clock didnt work
it is proven to the DG412 switches though, I have no explanation for why this occurs , nor at the moment any real solution
to it.
All the data sheets show progation and switching times in the nano second range and definitely not micro seconds
Anyway so at the end of the day i need to rid myself of this extra approx 50 microsecond pulse which causes the double stepping
my only thoughts at the moment are possibly using a RC network before the switch and reconditioning the clock signal on the other side x 8
but it's all a bit messy, wastefull and does nothing to explain why this is occuring
any thoughts anyone ?
Its almost like the 4017 controlling the DG412's is still outputting on its last step even after it has started to output to its next step for approx 50 microseconds EDIT : is it just me ? or when you look at the timing diagram on the data sheet for a 4017 it does in fact look like the steps do overlap each other though i see no other indications on the data sheet to support this . I mean really, you would think it would be mentioned somewhere. can anyone confirm this ? _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
bugger... took a real close look at that extra pulse
As best as i can judge it lines up with the start of the next clock pulse going in
so ANDing will not work it would just be repeated
another thing is that it's about 50 micro seconds long, way way longer than the couple of hundred nano seconds i was expecting.
no wonder delaying the switched clock didnt work
it is proven to the DG412 switches though, I have no explanation for why this occurs , nor at the moment any real solution
to it.
All the data sheets show progation and switching times in the nano second range and definitely not micro seconds
Anyway so at the end of the day i need to rid myself of this extra approx 50 microsecond pulse which causes the double stepping
my only thoughts at the moment are possibly using a RC network before the switch and reconditioning the clock signal on the other side x 8
but it's all a bit messy, wastefull and does nothing to explain why this is occuring
any thoughts anyone ?
Its almost like the 4017 controlling the DG412's is still outputting on its last step even after it has started to output to its next step for approx 50 microseconds EDIT : is it just me ? or when you look at the timing diagram on the data sheet for a 4017 it does in fact look like the steps do overlap each other though i see no other indications on the data sheet to support this . I mean really, you would think it would be mentioned somewhere. can anyone confirm this ?
I wish I had something to contribute to this! I've never encountered this so cannot voice anything useful _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
thats ok hex
I will work on it till i get a result and / or understand it properly
then post what i find out . _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
There are a couple of sympleSEQ "DELUXE" kits up for grabs in the hexinverter.net online store!
Included are very nice quality Mountain Switch miniature toggles, which are far superior to the Futurlec ones included in the base kits. The downside? They're also far more expensive, as reflected in the new kit price. They'll make for one super happy pair of sympleSEQs though!
OK got my symplseq64 build stepping correctly now, no more doublesteps YAY
fixed by adding a rising edge slew cct to the switched clock and then resquaring the pulse.
this which had the effect of delaying the start of the switched clock till after the 50 microsecond overlap of the 4017 outputs was done with. So while 2 DG switches are still active for that 50 microseconds there is now no clock pulse yet at the common input .whilst it does not fix the issue with the overlapping 4017 outputs, it does effectively get around the problem. will draw something up to explain this better when i get a chance .
franckboxe
I am going to have a look at the reset issue next, I have some idea's on how to get the sequencers to reset and then play from step 1 . _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any
reset issue
totally untested but i think it may work
i wont be able to try it out myself for a while as work has gotten in the way
so if any foolhardy person would like to try it feel free
RESET AND RUN STEP ONE FOR 4017 BASED SEQUENCER.bmp
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Any of the pads labelled "RST" on the logic board should work to get the reset signal from!
