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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
I need some patching help please
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Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, that´s where I wanted it (but if I followed some cables the wrong way you are not getting your money back because that one is a forrest!).

Right now it doesn´t realy have a advantage; I was thinking about a situation where the two filters would have the same cutoff. In that case phase canceling could be caused by 12db filters being 180° out of phase at the cutoff when signals would be mixed (for example in the serial version when the knob would be a quater of the way open) which would interfere with nice resonant sweeps and so on. This would mean extra volume fluctuations would result from "filter morphing" in real time if there would be resonance. If you don´t need it you should kick it out; there will be phase issues anyway, I was just hoping to keep them out of resonant peaks that might have some large musical meaning.

I suspect Dave is using the max mod amounts and ranges as a kind of diode in his example, b.t.w. if he does that´s quite nifty and something I will steal :¬).

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sheridan



Joined: Jun 05, 2005
Posts: 473
Location: London, England
Audio files: 27
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

At last, thanks to all your help, I think I can finally claim success!! After realising what Ian was talking about with the control max/min values and drawing up an attack plan, I have managed to get rid of some modules, simplifying the original work, whilst still including an extra filter split mode, where Osc 3 and Noise still go through filter 2, but now use the Mod Env module as their amp envelope while Osc 1 and Osc 2 go through filter 1 and the usual Amp Env module. Phew! I must say that it simplified everything greatly just by writing down a basic kind of flow chart.
Anyway, thanks for your help and persistence. Very Happy
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sheridan



Joined: Jun 05, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Boy was I premature in claiming success!!! It turns out that the 'split 2' mode was more difficult to achieve than first thought! I have had to insert several more switches!
Anyway, I've got one more question for you experts... I'm trying to get a button/switch to control whether the three oscilators and envelopes are synced or not. I tried using a (control) switch, but the out cables are still blue, so I'm not quite sure if it is working or not - it does change the sound, but it doesn't sound properly synced. (see previous pic - Key Sync switch is on left hand side). Any ideas anyone?
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thats correct if what you want is key sync ala DX7 (each wave will start in phase on each new key press). The effect is pretty subtle and usualy only used to get rid of pops at the start of notes. If your going for a virus type phase sync, then you need to use one of the vco outputs as the sync source, this would normally go from say osc1 to osc2 only. You could sync osc1 to osc2 and osc3 but I think the effect would not be as fat, maybe two switches?
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davep



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sheridan wrote:

Anyway, I've got one more question for you experts... I'm trying to get a button/switch to control whether the three oscilators and envelopes are synced or not. I tried using a (control) switch, but the out cables are still blue, so I'm not quite sure if it is working or not - it does change the sound, but it doesn't sound properly synced. (see previous pic - Key Sync switch is on left hand side). Any ideas anyone?


You can use the logic gate signal from the KYBD module as a sync signal for the oscs (the EGs are already getting this same signal 'hardwired' if the KBD button is 'on' in each EG module). Just run this gate signal through a switch between the KYBD module and the OSCs.

Why would you need to do this? For FM patches?

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sheridan



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dave.
Thanks for pointing the envelope KB LED on the envelopes... I did just notice this yesterday as it happens, while experimenting. Still, as mentioned... the sync doesn't seem to work quite right - maybe one beat in every 4 or 5, it seems to lose sync.
I basically wanted this sync opition for drum creation (not for 'classic' syned sounds Ian, but I could look into that), although as I have found, this patch isn't really set up right for drum making!
Basically, I just wanted as many sonic options as possible from this patch... I use it as a patch to start producing sounds from (as I have a controller pre-set to control virtually every parameter on it) and then I get rid of whatever unused modules there are and insert any more that I may need - such a time saver!!
Maybe if you download the (unfinished) patch, you'll see what I mean about the sync - see the kick drum I made on variation 2. Note also that there are only a few 'proper' variations made.
If anyone can sort out the phase problems in the split modes, I'd be eternally grateful!! Very Happy


BCR ctrl synth 2.pch2
 Description:
I know I have asked a lot, but please help!! I'm well and truely stuck on these last two problems!

Download
 Filename:  BCR ctrl synth 2.pch2
 Filesize:  5.91 KB
 Downloaded:  1073 Time(s)

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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sheridan wrote:
Hi Dave.
Maybe if you download the (unfinished) patch, you'll see what I mean about the sync - see the kick drum I made on variation 2. Note also that there are only a few 'proper' variations made.
If anyone can sort out the phase problems in the split modes, I'd be eternally grateful!! Very Happy


I checked it out, and the sync seems to be working correctly, but I think I know what you may be hearing. Since the patch is set to eight voices, and the kick variation (var #2) causes all notes to play the same pitch regardless of what key you press on the keyboard, I think you're hearing some cancellation caused by the last bit of decay of an old note being out of phase with the waveforms of a new note. This can happen when you play notes in rapid succession. Change the patch to mono and the effect goes away.

BTW, another thing that can cause a similar effect is a midi loop (playing the synth from it's own keyboard and having midi cables connected to the in & out, with midi Local set to "ON"). This causes two voices to trigger with every key press and can cause all sorts of baffling audio behavior.

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sheridan



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Dave... the Mono thing could sort out var 2 ok, but did you check out any actual sounds using the split modes (especially split 2)? I'm sure I can hear phase problems... try making a basic patch turning off mods, etc. What do you think now? Also, I simplified the patch by... er, re-patching, to miss out the complex split routing and the phase problems went away.
No MIDI loops here either.
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