electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Let's talk mixer EQ - specifically improving the EQ in mine
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 1 [11 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Regebro



Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:37 am    Post subject:  Let's talk mixer EQ - specifically improving the EQ in mine Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I want some ideas and inputs on what makes a good EQ, because I don't know. It is just the frequencies and Q that does it? How does a good EQ look, really? Are there any EQ circuits out there that are Real Good but doesn't use tubes or millions of parts?

Explanation:

I have a Tascam M-2524, and the M-2500 series EQ usually gets comments from "It has an EQ" to "It zuuuuuuckkkz", and since I have very little experience with mixers that has more than "bass" and "treble", I didn't have much opinion of my own on the topic.

However, I do feel that it's not super-useful, and when seeing videos of real classic high end classic vintage mega EQs, I kinda get it. It seems that with something like a Pultec, it doesn't matter what you do, it just magically sounds better.

So I mentioned to a friend that I might sell the Tascam and get something else, I don't like mixing in the computer, and he just "You can find somebody that can mod the mixer and make it better!" and that's an intriguing idea. Can I?

If all that's needed to make it better is changing the frequencies or Q values, then heck yeah, I just need to find an example of a good three-band EQ and mod the tascam to have similar values. But if I need to replace the whole EQ circuitry, then obviously, that's not doable.

Opinions, insights and information, please!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Airlock



Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 255
Location: Calabash, NC USA
Audio files: 43

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OPINION: Not worth the trouble or expense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Regebro



Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe not. Let me hear your opinion. Listen to these quick and shitty tests for example:

https://soundcloud.com/regebro/mixer-eq-mod-version-3-vocals
https://soundcloud.com/regebro/mixer-test-eq-v3-cheap-techno

I like the modded EQ better. It seems to me I can make things sound better with it. And this is with crap caps I had lying around, and supposedly better capacitors can also make a difference. We'll see.

Turns out the expense isn't too bad. Parts are costing around $150, and that's high quality parts for 24 channels and changing a LOT of caps. Trouble though? Maybe not. There's going to be a LOT of soldering. Smile

It would also have been a lot more trouble if not Calibrio on gearslutz would have been kind enough to do the designing for me. I don't know much about filter design at all.

Full thread: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslutz-forum/1328083-could-i-improve-eq-my-mixer.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Airlock



Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 255
Location: Calabash, NC USA
Audio files: 43

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I guess it all comes down to application: do you really need a 24 channel mixer w/EQ? The 8 busses is nice in post, but unless you are tracking a live band most people don't need that many channels. That's was a nice mixer in '90s, if it all still works I'd leave it alone and use a plug-in EQ in the DAW.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Regebro



Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Airlock wrote:
I guess it all comes down to application: do you really need a 24 channel mixer w/EQ? The 8 busses is nice in post, but unless you are tracking a live band most people don't need that many channels. That's was a nice mixer in '90s, if it all still works I'd leave it alone and use a plug-in EQ in the DAW.


I don't like mixing in the DAW one little bit. So yeah, a 24 channel mixer with a nice EQ is going to be great. I just ordered a a Cymatic 24 in/out interface to go with it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dk



Joined: Feb 12, 2019
Posts: 87
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another opinion: not worth the expense.

For the $300 you paid to buy it + $150 you'll spend on mods, you could probably already buy something better. Toss in the amount of time you spend working on it instead of making music (if that matters), you can definitely find something better. Even with the mod you'll end up with something that's at best mediocre, as even a newer Mackie, Behringer... pretty much anything newer will match or outpace it. And we won't even get into the magical "N" word (Neve) that you keep mentioning on Gearslutz, which is desirable pretty much only for tracking and for the sounds of its amplifiers and inductors, not it's EQ curves (which is a bit too limited for mixing).

Of course, if you're going for it just for fun, knock yourself out Smile

_________________
Horrors Of Dial-Up!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Regebro



Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dk wrote:
Another opinion: not worth the expense.

For the $300 you paid to buy it + $150 you'll spend on mods, you could probably already buy something better.

Well, certainly I don't suggest people buy a Tascam M-2524 in order to mod them.

And the expense for me still is $150. Sure, if I bought something else I could sell the Tascam, but just packing it for shipping would be similar amount of work to modding it. Smile

But to be honest, I doubt I could get anything much better in any case, I took a look at eBay now, and only thing I found that would be better was an Allen & Heath ZED 428 for £700. For $450, at least in Europe, the best you can find are what looks like heavily toured Mackie SR24's...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
L´Andratté



Joined: Sep 23, 2012
Posts: 138
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would prefer older Soundcraft over Tascam anyday, always liked EQ---
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Soundcraft-Spirit-Studio/184519185693?hash=item2af633551d:g:czwAAOSwTSdfeblM

Do you need mic pres? Do you need 24 channels?

Another option- the Tascam has inserts? So instead of modding you could build a box of a couple of cool outboard EQs, it has not to be complicated, a quad opamp, 4 lin pots two dual rev.log. (can be found easily here and now) and a couple of resistors, caps, build 8 channels, power it with 2 9V NiMH batteries until you have something better working bom

PS:friggin ebay found something really tasty (for me) no money though Confused
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Soundcraft-LM1-Broadcast-Vintage-Mischpult-1-spare-Canal-f-Filmton-12-kanal/224226487421?hash=item3434f0ac7d:g:WSwAAOSwaAdfp8fX


200B.EQ.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  317.27 KB
 Viewed:  11 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

200B.EQ.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dk



Joined: Feb 12, 2019
Posts: 87
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
But to be honest, I doubt I could get anything much better in any case, I took a look at eBay now, and only thing I found that would be better was an Allen & Heath ZED 428 for £700.


Sure, but then you'd have your conversion as well. I'm guessing the Tascam + the convertors you just ordered will end up costing roughly the same?

Mackie VLZ1604's go for about $300 used in Europe, and pretty much anything in the VLZ series will compare very favorably to the Tascam, both in sound and in maintenance. Again, if you're after the fun in modding it, enjoy, but sonically it's not even going to beat out newer 'budget' desks unless you completely rip out the insides and put something else in there.

_________________
Horrors Of Dial-Up!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Regebro



Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dk wrote:
Quote:
But to be honest, I doubt I could get anything much better in any case, I took a look at eBay now, and only thing I found that would be better was an Allen & Heath ZED 428 for £700.


Sure, but then you'd have your conversion as well. I'm guessing the Tascam + the convertors you just ordered will end up costing roughly the same?


No. I already own the Tascam, and as mentioned, the parts for the conversion is about $150. And I bought extra fancy "audiophile" capacitors, and change everything in the signal path, which I'm not sure makes a difference, I haven't checked yet (I will), and if you don't do that the components will probably just be $50 or so.

Now, I ended up actually making circuit boards for it, which cost me another $40. But it's still cheaper. The cost is definitely not the issue here, this solution WILL get me the most bang for the money, if I don't include the work.

Quote:
Mackie VLZ1604's go for about $300 used in Europe, and pretty much anything in the VLZ series will compare very favorably to the Tascam, both in sound and in maintenance.


?!? Maintenance on this thing is zero. I fixed some broken pots that broke in transport, and I cleaned the contacts with contact cleaner. Other than that I've had it for 15 years+ with absolutely no issues. It's built like a tank.

A VLZ1604 has only 16 channels. The EQ can also only sweep the mids, which might still make them better than the default EQ on the M2500, but certainly not better than my improved ones.

Quote:
Again, if you're after the fun in modding it, enjoy


It is fun, which is why I'm not counting the work. Smile

Quote:
but sonically it's not even going to beat out newer 'budget' desks unless you completely rip out the insides and put something else in there.


Sorry, but you are wrong. There's nothing in this desk that destroys the sound, which you seem to think. The preamps are lovely and it has a lot of features.

Seriously, the only drawback with it is that the EQ isn't that great. Otherwise it's a really good desk.

Now I don't need the 8 busses. And the tape inputs only save me one patch bay, so no big deal. I don't think I ever used all four sends, only three. But a Mackie 1604 doesn't even remotely cut it.

Last edited by Regebro on Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Regebro



Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

L´Andratté wrote:
I would prefer older Soundcraft over Tascam anyday, always liked EQ---


Yeah, I believe you there. But that was completely out of my budget when I bought the Tascam.

Quote:
Do you need mic pres?


Well, not 24 of them. Smile That is a bit overkill.

Quote:
Do you need 24 channels?


Yes. 20 might do.

Quote:
Another option- the Tascam has inserts? So instead of modding you could build a box of a couple of cool outboard EQs


That's an interesting idea. It would be very awkward to work with, having the EQ somewhere which isn't the mixer, but yeah, it would work.

Quote:
PS:friggin ebay found something really tasty (for me) no money though Confused
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Soundcraft-LM1-Broadcast-Vintage-Mischpult-1-spare-Canal-f-Filmton-12-kanal/224226487421?hash=item3434f0ac7d:g:WSwAAOSwaAdfp8fX


Cute!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 1 [11 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use