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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » WREN
Traditional Oscilloscope
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stelpa



Joined: Apr 09, 2021
Posts: 21
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:46 pm    Post subject:  Traditional Oscilloscope Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Curious if there's currently a way to get a "traditional" left-to-right oscilloscope in Wren? I see that there's an XY oscilloscope, which is handy for stereo images, but I'd like to have a way to view waveforms in a more traditional manner to see what is happening to the sound over time.

Is there currently a way to do this? If not, I think I'd make that a feature request Smile

Thanks!
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The thing sucks a bit .. but what you can try is to connect a saw wave to the X in and the signal to the Y in ... then maybe reset the saw when the signal is near some value ...

Another way is is to use the graphs thing ... F5 to go to the debug screen, make sure that debug settings "Use graphs" is on, then F4 to go to the graphs screen ..then stop audio if it was running (F9) and hit "debug run" in the graphs screen .. but that really is just for debugging things as it is amazingly slow wh lots of points get accumulated ... anyways, that is what I use for debugging signals.

Edit: the graphs are made from the sum of all output modules in the patch .. so .. could send some debug signals to say output 3 .. 8 .. and then use that on just one output module.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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stelpa



Joined: Apr 09, 2021
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
The thing sucks a bit .. but what you can try is to connect a saw wave to the X in and the signal to the Y in ... then maybe reset the saw when the signal is near some value ...

Another way is is to use the graphs thing ... F5 to go to the debug screen, make sure that debug settings "Use graphs" is on, then F4 to go to the graphs screen ..then stop audio if it was running (F9) and hit "debug run" in the graphs screen .. but that really is just for debugging things as it is amazingly slow wh lots of points get accumulated ... anyways, that is what I use for debugging signals.

Edit: the graphs are made from the sum of all output modules in the patch .. so .. could send some debug signals to say output 3 .. 8 .. and then use that on just one output module.


I see, haven't explored the debug screen much, I will check it out!

I'll also play around with the x/y oscilloscope (will return here if I find a cool technique), but I hope you'll consider adding a more traditional oscilloscope down the line, since it could be pretty helpful in understanding what certain controls do Smile

Thanks for the response!
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stelpa



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just an update confirming that this works for now as a way to use the XY oscilloscope as a more traditional one - you'll have to tweak the history amount depending on your input though, and you'll still get weird black lines connecting different parts of the waveform, but it'll do in a pinch.


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah it is pretty messy, but indeed can see some things with abit of fiddling.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Your request for a a real(-ish) o-scope has been noted.

I'll have to think a bit of what it would actually have to do. A 'real scope' can be pretty complex, but I do not think such complexity would add much, a more or less still wave image would be enough I guess .. so 'real-ish', without too many controls, maybe just a level control.

edit: and probably some time base control too.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've made something a bit more traditional in a pre-release version.

https://bluehell.nl/wren/#changes for info
https://bluehell.nl/wiekietje/pmwiki.php/Wren/PreRelease for the info about what to do with a pre-release and a downlaod link.

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It's not perfect (the update rate is quite low), but at least a bit .. more traditional .. or real-ish :)

Edit: Just made it update four times as fast, but that is not in a pre-release yet .. next time :)

Edit: .. o .. wait .. it actually is in .. heh.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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stelpa



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
I've made something a bit more traditional in a pre-release version.

https://bluehell.nl/wren/#changes for info
https://bluehell.nl/wiekietje/pmwiki.php/Wren/PreRelease for the info about what to do with a pre-release and a downlaod link.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

It's not perfect (the update rate is quite low), but at least a bit .. more traditional .. or real-ish Smile

Edit: Just made it update four times as fast, but that is not in a pre-release yet .. next time Smile

Edit: .. o .. wait .. it actually is in .. heh.


Sorry, didn't see this message! Thanks so much, this is exciting! I just tested the pre-release though, and on my machine (windows, 64 bit), I don't get any display in either trigger mode, just a gray rectangle. Not sure what's up with that >_<

EDIT: Also, it seems to be using a ton of cpu on my machine, even with no other modules except an oscillator! Not sure what's up with that, since my pc has been able to handle all other parts of wren fine so far. Just thought I'd mention.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Strange ... this is what I get (for example)

Edit: what is your 'lights rate'? (on the settings screen (F3), near the top left). I have it set to 24.40Hz here.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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stelpa



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Strange ... this is what I get (for example)

Edit: what is your 'lights rate'? (on the settings screen (F3), near the top left). I have it set to 24.40Hz here.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


My light rate was at 23.03hz, though changing it doesn't have any affect - I replicated your patch here and still don't get any visual, strange.

The cpu load is pretty dramatic, more than any other module I've used in Wren so far - not sure what's going on here :S Let me know if you have any ideas to test and I'll try them Smile
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Grumble



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe it’s a video card issue?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I forgot to set a pen color for trace painting ... and the trace will now show in the border color ... could you set that color to some other value? (to see if you get something displayed then).

It is the Viewer border color under colors in the settings screen (F3).

As to why the module would eat a lot of CPU ... I have no idea yet ... it uses about 1% or so here, and there is nothing in it that would be CPU heavy.

For the next pre-release that color issue will be fixed, and it will be the Viewer line color then

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, I've made a new pre-release for the color issue, and also added a debug display to the scope module that will show the internal state of the module.

State can be any of (Collecting, Displaying, PreSyncing, Syncing) (with an msts prefix).

What state does it show to you? (I would expect it to be mostly mstsDisplaying) - in the patch sketched above.

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stelpa



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Ok, I've made a new pre-release for the color issue, and also added a debug display to the scope module that will show the internal state of the module.

State can be any of (Collecting, Displaying, PreSyncing, Syncing) (with an msts prefix).

What state does it show to you? (I would expect it to be mostly mstsDisplaying) - in the patch sketched above.


Not sure what it was, but this new release fixed it and it's working perfectly now! It's still using a good chunk of cpu, but not nearly as much as it was previously - weird! Thanks so much for adding this though, it'll help a lot in learning how Wren ticks ^_^

Edit: and you're right, mstsDisplaying is the main thing I see at the top btw
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok .. still weird .. in that simple patch I used I see no noticible difference in CPU usage (the % as reported by Wren itself) with or without the scope module being present.

Ah, but the windows CPU usage does go up a bit on it it seems, yup, quite a bit .. must be the screen painting then I guess ... hmm

Anyway - is that what you meant?

Edit: sped up the drawing quite a bit too, windows CPU display is more reasonable now. Publised a fresh pre-release for that. Also decided on keeping the state display.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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stelpa



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Ok .. still weird .. in that simple patch I used I see no noticible difference in CPU usage (the % as reported by Wren itself) with or without the scope module being present.

Ah, but the windows CPU usage does go up a bit on it it seems, yup, quite a bit .. must be the screen painting then I guess ... hmm

Anyway - is that what you meant?

Edit: sped up the drawing quite a bit too, windows CPU display is more reasonable now. Publised a fresh pre-release for that. Also decided on keeping the state display.


Yep, seems perfect now - thank you so much, this is great Very Happy
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