Creativity and propaganda: A remix dated 1942

elektro80 · Last edited by elektro80 on Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

Made as a piece of anti-nazi propaganda, this short music video was made in 1942, based on scenes from Leni Riefenstahl´s "Triumph of The Will". At the time, this was probably a copyright infringement. The music used is a sratchy version of the "Lambeth Walk". This little remix was then distributed by the Universal Newsreel system. The name Graham McNamee shows up at the start. if I am not mistaken, he was a famous sports commentator way back then.

This is of course not the first "remix" in history, but it was a pretty well known thing at least up until the beginning of the 80s.

In some way or another Hitler and Goering managed to get hold of this film. Hitler went into a state of advanced ROFL. Later the boys had a nice party with friends. I have been told that Hitler kicked Goebbels ass and demanded a similar remix with Churchill. So far I haven´t been able to find that one.

Anyways, I hope we can start a discussion about methods and ideologies of remixing/montage here in the composition forum.

1942-01-07_Gen_Adolph_Takes_Over_256kb.mp4

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elektro80 · Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject:

Legend has it that a british film also based on Leni Riefenstahl footage was made, or partially made, but it got binned because it relied too much on gay humour.. Adolf and the nicely styled stormtroopers.. or something of the sort. I guess those british filmmakers took it way too far. There supposedly is at least one private copy of this little film that one of the filmmakers kept for personal use. So far I haven´t found any solid info. But that film also supposedly used a popular song with "new" lyrics.

Kassen

elektro80

Kassen · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:33 am Post subject:

I have no problems at all calling propaganda art. Quite often it needs to get complex subjects across to many people in simple bold gestures; it could be argued those are criteria it has in common with manny great artworks.

mosc · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:03 am Post subject:

Leni Riefenstahl´s "Triumph of The Will" is as much a piece of history as of art. Anyway, it is a very powerful film. It was as much an anti-Nazi film as a pro-Nazi film. Hollywood film maker Frank Capra used Riefenstahl's footage to make his own (serious) anti-Nazi films when he was in the US Army during WWII. .

orczy · Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Posts: 161 Location: Australia

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject:

hey Chris.. and now I am working on a remix too.. Cool

orczy · Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Posts: 161 Location: Australia

orczy · Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Posts: 161 Location: Australia

Kassen

blue hell · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:31 am Post subject:

As a side step.

What is remixing ?

I always thought the term was refering to taking a muultitrack recording of an existing song or piece that then is mixed in a different way than the original mixing was.

From the discussion I get the idea that the term has been stretched, like when I record a song from the radio, or a piece from some TV show, and chop it up into pieces and rearange those pieces into some different temporal order that would be remixing as well.

The latter comes closer to wave sculpturing (a term that I use for such a process), and the question then becomes : where does it end ? Must in a remix the original be recognizable somehow ?

I can imagine taking taking some WWII based material as the base material for some wave claying (although it would almost cerainly bring me into an uncomfortable state of mind, like what seems to have happened to Chris), but I'd never call it remixing I guess (although I could always change my naming conventions to match better with other's).

Kassen · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:01 am Post subject:

Yes, Jan, youa re completely right. The term is being streched to the point of breaking. Most modern remixes have very little to do with re-mixing a multitrack recording and instead focus on restructuring the material and recontextualising a popular hook. It could be argued that remixing in these days also refers to re-selling the same material; when a song gets popular all dj's in a scene will want to play it and so there'll be a demand for different versions (I never understood why people do that; I always try to pack records I anticipate nobody else will bring).

Sometimes remixes will be in completely different styles and aparently taking one vocal hook from a rock song and putting techno beats below it also counts as remixing... I think it's a very interesting field where many worthwhile corners can and are explored but I also think that the average remix adds very little. It's a sad fact that the tracks that get remixed tend to be picked for comercial viability instead of what tracks offer interesting musical angles. Generally you can say that remixing currently lies somewhere between covering (as in; the Banshees covered "helter skelter" by the Beatles), versioning (as in; Lee Perry made a dub version of "babylon falling" by the Heptones) and sampling (as in; one million HipHop producers sampled the knightrider tv show theme) but exactly where it falls in open for opinion and interpertation.

Personally I stick to keeping every element of remixes I do tracable tro the original in some way but there is no real demand from anyone to stick to that rule.

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:04 am Post subject:

As long as we are talking art and not musicbiz lingo, then the ideology of remixing stems from the avantgarde methods deconstruction/montage/collage/recontextualization/political satire etc etc.
Certainly this is a tradition already as seen recognized in works by Eno, Czukay and others. As such, one might even argue that this was to an extent done by the avantgare romantics like Liszt.

The way I have always seen this is that the old mid 70s disco mix has gone the route by the hardcore regggae dubs of the late 70s, then been resdicovered partly due to modern production tools mixed with the DJ angle.

Anyway, I am trying to start a new discussion by introducing this older tradition. Artistically it is far more interesting and less restricting.
Anyone?

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:05 am Post subject:

recontextualization: a change in context that in turn changes the code

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:10 am Post subject:

http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Cult/CultSamp.htm

Kassen · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:21 am Post subject:

I'm not so sure the older tradition needs to be less restrictive at all even if admittedly the more modern forms indeed tend towards rather conservative forms. Good Dub makes carefull use of the links between tone and time, freezing some bit, then manipulating it and showing it's texture off in different ways, often followed by re-contrasting the manipulated bit against a element in the original piece that is now shown in a different light; after a snare stops echoing there will be a especially prominent bass guitar note, for example.

I don't think that's that different from changing the context of a political statement in order to voice your opinion on that statement, the subject matter is just different. Typically politically motivated collage pieces will have more thought behind them then the average floor smashing dance hit (tm) but I don't think that nesicarily means the form is more free or even all that different at it's core.

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:22 am Post subject:

I am mentioning Heidegger because Sein und Zeit really did have a lot of influence on various artistic methodologies.

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:28 am Post subject:

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:41 am Post subject:

I should mention that I am still not claiming music itself to be a language
see this thread for more on that subject:
A discussion of the symphonic poem
I do however tend to think in semantic/semiotic terms when writing music, which by itself is not something new at all, and I do think a piece of music can be coded by ideas and messages.

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:50 am Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:54 am Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:57 am Post subject:

I would be interested in the interview and in hearing some of this music. Are there any mp3s available?

Kassen · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:05 am Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:34 am Post subject:

I lived in Israel for a year and developed quite an ear for Arabic music. That's why I'm very interested in it.

Since we are on Creativity and Proaganda, when I was in Israel the Israeli's were amumsed and upset that I was a big Arabic music fan. Some said that this was bad music because the lyrics were about driving the Jews into the sea. That is, they thought it was all propaganda. This seemed illogical to me because the music had a very light and lyical quality to it.

After living there some months, I was employed on a farm and was assigned to work with some Arabs. We became friendly and I as we worked I asked them what the songs that were playing were about. Most were love songs, or songs about missing ones mother, or about how beautiful the morning was. After I heard several of these translations I told my Arab friends that the Israelis thought they were anti-Jewish propoganda. They laughed. About two hours later, one told me that the song then playing was about how great things will be when the Arabs take over Jerusalem and drive the infidels into the sea.