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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Midi Controller for G2 Engine Missing Documentation !
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steampump



Joined: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 76
Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:05 am    Post subject: Midi Controller for G2 Engine Missing Documentation ! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm really disappointed to see how small are the informations to controlle the expander with midi. I'm not speaking about the controller you can assign within a patch, but about the controller who are not listed and are used by the Engine.
I'll give you two samples .
CC#70 variation selector: not comment about the value to use (Jan give my a god advice)

CC#47 is the controller for the arpeggiatore (on off) 0 127
CC#50 is the rate for the arpeggiator ( value 0 32 64 96 ) 1/8 1/8T 1/16 1/16T
I just found this because i used the nord lead 3 template in the Remote 25 .
Without this chance, i would probably never know, there is an arpegiator inside of my G2 Engine....
How many undocumented midi controller are there, and what do they controlle ? And what are the controller value ?
Has somebody found out more ?
I have begun to collect the infos on my home page. See the verified controller.www.armuco.ch

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Last edited by steampump on Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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steampump



Joined: Oct 22, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:24 pm    Post subject: other controller Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Found 2 other undocumented controller
CC#53 apeggiatore direction 0= up 32 =down 64= up and down 96= random or sequence ?
CC#54 arpeggiator 0 = 1 oct 32= 2 oct 64 = 3 oct 96 = 4octave

searching other .......
Actual liste www.armuco.ch

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steampump



Joined: Oct 22, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:13 pm    Post subject: G2 Engine Midi controller Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy I have found a lot of internal midi controller
You can find them listed and documented on my home page.
Here is an easy access

http://www.armuco.ch/music/music_sound_technologie_fr.htm

For some CC# i have not found the use yet. I'm not sure if standard use is made with them. Or how they are used. I remind you the CC# used here cannot be assigned in the patch to control the modules. They are only for general use
Volume,PitchBend;octav shift,keyboard hold,voicemode,performance mode, Bank change, arpeggiatore commande, vibrato,sustain, glide parameter, variation selection,
The missing controller use:
CC#6 Data entry ?
CC#11 Expression Pedal ? ( has sombody a exemple)
CC#37
CC#38
CC#96
CC#97
CC#100
CC#101
Thanks for your help

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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

According to the newer G2 manual (http://www.clavia.com/G2/V1_20/G2UserManual_V1_2x.pdf), cc#96 and #97 are the G2X Global Modwheel 1 (morph Cool and 2 (morph 5) respectively and #11 is the expression pedal. As for the other non-assignable controllers, I have no idea Confused. They certainly improved the midi section of the manual, but you'd think they'd give a complete cc list.
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You are doing good work ! And it's good for my french language skills (hmm..) as well :-)

Jan.
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steampump



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:09 pm    Post subject: More about CC#11 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm just beginning to use the Engine. And just beginning to understand how morph groups are working.
I see also that midi conrollers can be used in different ways. For CC#11 the pedal expression my problem was that there was no samples in the patch who uses the Expression Pedal. So i have to create one and found there are 3 way to use the pedal.
1) assign a knob to the groupe controlled by the pedal
2) using the modul Device
3) using the module CtrlRcv1

The only way to use all internal assigned controller is using module CtrlRcv1

But CARREFULL , you really need to know what you are doing, because the assigned controler are continuing to do there job. It means that you can only do some effects with some controller .
Maybe Volume (CC#7) with a LFO modulation...

You can use the CC# 96 and 97 without any problem on the "G2 Engine " with CtrlRcv1 because they are not assigned to any internal command.

Do not use CC*37, 38,100, 101 and CC#120 before knowing what they are doing internally.


Cool CC#9 can be used to play "Sounds of silence"

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egw
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Are these fixed CC assignments only on the engine?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AFAIK the CC's are not engine only.

Jan,
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jamos



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't get the arpeggiator controls to work - I'm usng the Ctrl Send module and constants tied to front-panel controls, on a G2 keyboard, v 1.24. Does anyone know why this shouldn't work?
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steampump



Joined: Oct 22, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject: Arpeggiator Problem Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have only the Engine Rack . But i have had a problem with the arpeggiator .By mistake i have Deassigned all Midi, and all standard parameters were also deassigned in the patch setttings.
Reassign and it should work. You can also assing a button to the control panel in this menu.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good job.
Respect.

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ian-s



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Arpeggiator Problem Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

steampump wrote:
You can also assing a button to the control panel in this menu.


Thanks, I couldn't get it to work as well. Just like you say, you can assign your own CC's to the knobs in the patch settings. See patch, variation 5 for an example, both range and direction randomly changed.

Only works in slot A


FltFB-FM.pch2
 Description:
midi control of arp functions (var 5 only)

Download
 Filename:  FltFB-FM.pch2
 Filesize:  2.87 KB
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Wan



Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: Arpeggiator Problem Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:


See patch, variation 5 for an example, both range and direction randomly changed.

Only works in slot A


Now this is not just a patch....

It's a terrific patch Very Happy

The other variations are good too folks, don't listen just to var 5 (which is very clever).

Thanks G2Ian

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zynthetix



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

does anyone know what CC #32 is for?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zynthetix wrote:
does anyone know what CC #32 is for?


Bank selection, then when a bank is selected a patch or performance can be selected from this bank by using a Program Change message.

Bank selection can be used on a regular MIDI channel to select a patch bank or on the global channel to select a performance bank.

Likewise Program Change can be used on a global or non-global MIDI channel.

The first bank is selected by sending a zero data byte for this CC.

Jan.
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zynthetix



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for the info jan.

imho, i think a version of this list should be added into the G2 faq, editing the list when new CC# definitions are found. Special props to steampump for finding so many of these props
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richard s



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

#80 is used to control the start/stop for the master clock - but this is still available as an assignable controller. Does anyone know where i can reassign the start/stop to something else? Can't see it in the manual

anyone know what 18 is used for?

I don't like all this dedicated CCs! We should have a matrix where we are able to assign them at will. Especially for Engine users!

Richard
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jamos



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

richard s wrote:
I don't like all this dedicated CCs!


I do. When too many things are assignable it means that more can go wrong: you have two devices to configure (the synth and the controller) rather than just one (the controller). So more time is spent configuring, figuring out config mismatches, etc.

Choice is not always a good thing.

Just my $0.02, in case anyone at Clavia is tempted to take you seriously Wink
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richard s



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

but jamos, surely the Nord modulars are all about getting confused by having too much choice!! Smile

In my case i am using a yamaha wx5 as a controller, apart from breath, this outputs cc17,16, 80 and 81 so basically i am pretty much screwed because Clavia already tied up CCs which as a non-keyboard playing engine user i will never want or be able to use

My basic view is that it is my synth and I should be able to do whatever i want with it - I think we should both be happy. There should be a standard controller template for you and user templates for me.

Richard
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steampump



Joined: Oct 22, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:18 am    Post subject: Midi specifiacation Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just for younger people ,
Midi (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) have be devellopped in early 80's.
Midi spedification 1.0 was designed for manufacturer's to communicate data between different music interfaces, Synths, DSP, Recorder.Lightshow etc.. The problem was that in the beginning only a part of the protocol was used, and the rest was free. So the problem is now that many early free controller are used in different way today; standard stays compatible, but when you have older and new device some are not compatible.
So my personnal view is that the solution of Clavia to assign controller is the best you can have to communicate with new or older devices.
You can fin more information about Midi at http://www.midi.org/ and the extended protocols.

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richard s



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"my personnal view is that the solution of Clavia to assign controller is the best you can have to communicate with new or older devices."

ermm, except my device, or any other that routes different from that declared correct by Clavia. The truth is that Clavia's implementation makes it completely hit or miss whether a given controller will work or not... it not comprehensive at all, in fact its pretty random

Having less controllers but being able to customise the routing, like the Andromeda, would be a much more flexible solution IMO

Richard
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steampump



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just for CC#18 is Keyboard hold parameter 0=normal 64 =hold
It is similar to sustain CC#64

For your other question , i'm not shure to understand are you using G2 as master, or is it just a slave in your config ?
If it is slave you can also change defined CC# in patch setting menu (see above ).

About CC#80 it is not a standard controller and has noting to do with the master clock
If you want to control your G2, your masterkeyboard need to be able to send MidiTimecode
this means there is a generator in your masterkeyboard. You are going to syncronize an external clock with the clock in your G2. It is no the same thing as just starting a sequencer with a trigger.

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jamos



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

steampump wrote:
If you want to control your G2, your masterkeyboard need to be able to send MidiTimecode


NO NO NO!

Sorry for the emotion, but this is a pet peeve. MIDI Time Code and MIDI Clock are not the same. MIDI Time code (MTC) is "time of day" based, and is not used in the G2, nor does it (IMHO) have any application outside scoring films. MIDI clock is tempo based, and is the correct sync method to use for sequencer/drum machine sync.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

steampump wrote:

About CC#80 it is not a standard controller and has noting to do with the master clock


From the G2 v1.29/1.30 readme :

* MIDI CC# 80 on Global Channel sets internal clock state.

(which means starts/stops the clock - MIDI clock, not MTC !!)


Jan.
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steampump



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry, i'm not going so deep in timing . I was just happy when it is working.
I'm just looking in my midi resource book, and see my confusion between MTC, SMPTE and Midi clock message. I believed SMPTE was the only one who was used for real time , that was the reason why i believed Midi Time Code and Midi Clock message where the same thing.
So i know something more MTC is a absolute timing reference and Midi clock is a relative timing reference.
And SMPTE the timing reference used in audio and video.,converted to MTC to be used in Midi enviroment...and Backward.

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