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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Random pattern generators - unique?
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:39 am    Post subject: Random pattern generators - unique? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Playing around with Mother Misty's version of Roland's Beast patch (highly reccomended to everyone - you can do some fantastic things with it), I wondered if the random pattern modules remember their patterns. So I turn off the G2, and just to be sure I reboot the computer. I fire everything back up and lo and behold, all my variations are exactly the same Cool. So it got me thinking - does each G2 have their own set of unique patterns in the random pattern module, or do all G2's have the same patterns?

So I propose a test (unless this is already known). If someone else could listen to this mp3 of variation 3, and also load up the following patch and listen to variation 3 on their G2 and compare, I would be most grateful. I'm kinda hoping each G2 has it's own set of patterns. Maybe there's a range of serial numbers that has cooler patterns WinkLaughing


randomtest.mp3
 Description:
Mp3 for a test of the random pattern module in different G2s

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 Filename:  randomtest.mp3
 Filesize:  225.52 KB
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beast-myvars.pch2
 Description:
Posted for a test of the random module's difference in other G2s

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 Filename:  beast-myvars.pch2
 Filesize:  8.55 KB
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When I load your patch in my G2X after power cycling it, I get the same pattern, but the tempo is different.
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cheers Mosc. That's nice, so if I make a patch that works really well around a certain pattern in that module I can load it in others and it's exactly the same - fantastic! Very Happy
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice work Afro. And yes, i get always the same pattern. My students bring their own G2 engines and plug it into the pc there. And gues what...... Smile
The same patterns. I did a lot with the pattern gen of the NM, and gues what......exacty the same thing! And i like the morphs of Misty and your tweaks! And when Mosc is going to play Techno, that will be the day Laughing
Tempo is different Mosc, because it's a patch, not a performance. So tempo of internal/ext clock isn't saved.
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Afro, i missed your morphs, and it's only 3 variations. Check out my 303 itch. Because of Misty i did morphs. Those patches go well in 1 perf.
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Roland, good to know. I'll probably start using random pattern gens in my loop patches now that I know I can get the same results each time I load the patch.

Regarding the patch I posted, I had only been playing around with it for a couple of hours when I posted it for this experiment, so it's by no means a finished patch. I've done a few more vars I like, and when they're full I'm gonna start doing some morphing Cool. I'll post the final vars with morphs in your thread when I'm done.

I'll say it again - this is a really great patch. I'm not sure how you've done it, but the way the parameters interact with each other is really unique. You can get a huge range of really "out there" riffs, sounds and loops out of it - I can't get enough of it! Very Happy
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Rob



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Random pattern generators - unique? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afrokid wrote:
I wondered if the random pattern modules remember their patterns.


The patterns are not random but pseudorandom. The idea is that a sequence is generated that cycles through all possible numbers in the 24 bit range until all numbers have passed once, and then repeat that same pattern all over again. It is a long pattern where for e.g. every number or for each 'two consequetive numbers' combination, there is a specific new number. The pattern appears random as there are just so many numbers in that one very long sequence. It is an example of a case where something is actually totally determined, but with soo much info that it appears random to our ears. To our ears its just 'info-glut'.

It is possible to jump to any location into that long sequence and always get the same sequence back from there. So, the pattern generator just plays e.g. sixteen notes from the sequence that is actually over 16 million numbers long.

It is theoretically possible to calculate the sequence, the methods to create that one long sequence are simple. The two methods used are the 'linear congruential' method and the shift-register method.
The first method takes a number and produces a new number by multiplying the original number with a certain prime number and then adding another certain prime number. The other method is like a hollow pipe where bits are shifted in at the one end so bits tumble out on the other end. Just imagine these bits to be black and white painted ping-pong balls. Two or more bits at a certain location in the pipe are checked for parity and it is the result of this parity check that is shifted in at the one side of the pipe.
The methods can be calculated if for the first method one knows the two prime numbers, and for the second method which bits 'in the pipe' are actually used for the parity check. Of course Clavia says they have forgotten those prime numbers and for some reason the code that showed which bits in the pipe are used has been stained in stroopwafel liquorice, so it has become unreadable. Wink

So yeah, you can be sure that the patterns always repeat themselves, it is inherent on how the patterns are produced in the first place.

The other random modules actually use that same long 'linear congruential' sequence. Noise does repeat after some three minutes or so. Dividing (2^24 minus one) by 96000 gives the length in seconds. 174.76267 seconds says my calculator. Ok.

On the other modules the seed value is the starting point in the long sequence, but those run through all numbers while the pattern generator resets to its seed after e.g. 16 numbers. Using a ClkDivide module to reset a clocked random generator module after e.g. sixteen clockticks can produce the exact same patterns as the pattern generator.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Random pattern generators - unique? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob wrote:

So yeah, you can be sure that the patterns always repeat themselves, it is inherent on how the patterns are produced in the first place.


Asuming the same start value is used ... of course :-)

Jan.
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, thanks very much Rob! Very interesting stuff. Good to know the clocked random modules can be reset so they repeat the same sequence, and will sound the same on other G2's. Herein lies the beauty of digital synthesis - predictability. Thanks again! Very Happy
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