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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
I need some help making a scratchy sound
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Chet



Joined: Nov 19, 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Lititz,PA,USA
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 35

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:49 pm    Post subject: I need some help making a scratchy sound Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm trying to duplicate the scratchy sound at the start of a cello note, and I've become thoroughly frustrated at my inability to pull it off.

If anyone has some ideas, or can point me to some patches, I'll be very grateful. In fact, if I can add it to my current string model, you'll be credited for the technique in the upcoming 'bowed strings' section of my PM tutorial, which I plan to publish later this summer.

Below are three little sound snippets. The first is the cello sample I'm trying to duplicate. The second is the first 50ms of the sample, which isolates the scratchy sound. And the third is my synthesized tone, which desperately needs that initial scratch.

http://chet.getchwood.com/MP3s/D4-Reference.mp3
http://chet.getchwood.com/MP3s/D4-Scratch.mp3
http://chet.getchwood.com/MP3s/D4-Synthesized.mp3

I've attached the patch I'm trying to add it to. My current attempt (to be replaced by something better, hopefully) is in slot A, column 3, in the turquoise section labeled "Bow Scrape".


mumsCello012.prf2
 Description:
Cello model that needs some help.

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 Filename:  mumsCello012.prf2
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23500
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 262
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Attached is more like the sample I think, but the noise is still too sharp.

Against the sharpness I tried a noise oscillator instead of the noise, tried to filter the noise and also I tried fm noise with a regular oscillator - all either too dull or too sharp, so I left it all out.

It is a bit hard to test without the expressiveness of the keyboard and its controllers, so I don't know how this scales over all the possible playing variations.

Maybe it will give some inspiration.

Jan.


mumscello-h0.prf2
 Description:
Small bow change to a cello patch made by Chet singer

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 Filename:  mumscello-h0.prf2
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Chet



Joined: Nov 19, 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Lititz,PA,USA
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 35

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you very much, Jan. I'll check it out this evening.

Chet
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Chet



Joined: Nov 19, 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Lititz,PA,USA
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 35

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, Jan. That's a neat technique. It's definitely an improvement, but it's not quite there yet. This is a tough one to crack. Perhaps some of the problem is that the sound ends up getting processed by the string loop and the filter banks. I made an attempt that sounded somewhat like it, using Ken Elhard's synced oscillators, but when I put it into the patch, it suddenly sounded completely different.

It just struck me that the sharpness may fit in with my violin patch. I'll have to give that a try tonight.
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Blue Hell
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Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Chet wrote:
Perhaps some of the problem is that the sound ends up getting processed by the string loop and the filter banks.


I was thinking the bow should bounce on the string depending on the momentary amplitudes of both the bow and the string, but it should stick-slip as well in some irregular way when touching each other (probably the cause for the noise mentioned later on).

I've tried to make the string to interact with the bow but could not find a working method for that. Instead I came up with the perc osc that is trying to mimic the process (without having the interactions of course).

When I listen to the sound sample I hear not very much scratching, to me it sounds more like (remarkably !) smooth (non-digital) noise that evolves into tone. Especially the short sample you posted gave me that impression, but once heard that way it's hard to hear it differently (which could be part of the problem, prejudice creeps in quckly it seems).

An idea :

Maybe things could be analyzed further by isolating various short samples from the onset of the tone all starting at different times relative to the original recording. Listening to repeating versions of those short samples might reveal better what is going on.

Jan.
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Chet



Joined: Nov 19, 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Lititz,PA,USA
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 35

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, it sounds to me like a very smooth scraping sound (smooth scraping..?) that morphs into the tone. There also seems to be a slight rising in perceived pitch.

My model doesn't have a built-in way of generating that initial scrape. I've read papers that describe enhancements to the model that do that. They model the twisting torsional waves on the string, the inharmonicity due to the string tension, and the width of the bow itself. Sheesh. But everything is spoken in generalities. There's no information that's specific enough that I can figure out how to build that stuff into a patch. Bummer.

So I figured I'll just have to duplicate the sound and inject it into the string.
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dan gulberry



Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 12
Location: UK
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gotta say I think this is a wicked patch. Using the mutator you can come up with some scarily convincing sounds of fingers rubbing the strings. I have no idea how it works but I want to find out so I can make more patches that sound organic and synthetic at the same time.

I've been a lurker til now, so hi to everyone.
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