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Fritz chaos circuit
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

love those knobs!!

i am trying to get a mixer panel in my synth and then i will get back to working on other things...like patching the ez into the jerkster!!

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bearblock



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
bearblock wrote:

in fact the rate pot seems to be generating a CV... this isn't that far from being a full-on chaotic VCO amirite?

Absolutely! It was designed so you could use a standard expo converter to replace the "Rate" pot. I even put extra holes on the board for mounting a piggyback expo circuit.


I'm now starting to wish my Jerkster LFO had a rate CV input, so I figure I may as well do exactly this and get a weird new audio VCO as well. Specifically, I plan to build the expo converter from your Triangle VCO on stripboard and hook up the current output to the rate pot wiper input of the Jerkster. Is really that all there is to it? Just looking for some reassurance before I buy the parts Wink
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that sounds like a great idea!!

i plan on buying a bunch of double well and jerk boards when i get the money from bride chamber and making a big chaos machine

ian, maybe you could design an add on strip or pcb layout, or sell a board, for the expo add on!

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frijitz



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bearblock wrote:
I'm now starting to wish my Jerkster LFO had a rate CV input, so I figure I may as well do exactly this and get a weird new audio VCO as well. Specifically, I plan to build the expo converter from your Triangle VCO on stripboard and hook up the current output to the rate pot wiper input of the Jerkster. Is really that all there is to it?

No that is not an appropriate expo converter. You need one to source current into the OTAs. There are quite a few out there. You might be happy with a simple single opamp one like Rene's:
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/index.html
Or the fancier T. Henry designs on Scott Stites' page:
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id29.html
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id31.html
(Leave out the linear fm and hft components.)

Very Happy

Ian
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've designed a stripboard layout of the EZ-Chaos circuit and, with Ian's permission, present it here for anybody to use if interested.
I used 6 op-amps and incorporated a basic indicator for each output. The LEDs are bi-colour, and hopefully will help with adjusting the controls for a decent swing and good placement.
I've laid it out so the pots can be mounted directly on the board (16mm) but you could easily run wires if not. The LEDs should also easily mount through 3 holes drilled between the pots.
I'm in the process of building it up to test, but at this stage it is UNTESTED.
I'll update this status as soon as I can get to my workbench. Rolling Eyes

I'm planning on putting 2 of these on a 1U rack. Or possibly three, normalled to a jerkster on a 3U rack.

Enjoy! Very Happy


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frijitz



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks great!

Very Happy

Ian
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bugfight



Joined: Aug 02, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for sharing that,
if it had come a few months back i would definitely have built it,
but now i gots a bridechamber pcb in the queue...
anywayz, will no doubt help some others get their chaos on and whatnot
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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

very cool, thanks for providing another option... keep us posted on a build?

b

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frijitz



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: softsynth version
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I now have a version of this system running in ABox using the diff eqn solver. I can't figure out how to post the file, as I get an illegal extension error, but I could email it to anyone who might be interested. (See the ABox thread under Instruments and Equipment --> Soft synths.)

Very Happy

Ian
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fonik



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: softsynth version
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frijitz wrote:
I can't figure out how to post the file, as I get an illegal extension error,

zip it!?

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any illegal extension can just be zipped, as .zip is a legal extension. Wink
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You just beat me to it Fonik!
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:47 am    Post subject:
Subject description: softsynth version
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fonik wrote:
zip it!?

Excuse me??? ... Oh, you mean the file.

Very Happy

Ian
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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:56 am    Post subject:
Subject description: softsynth version
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frijitz wrote:
fonik wrote:
zip it!?

Excuse me??? ... Oh, you mean the file.

Very Happy

Ian

Embarassed
Excuse me, no offense meant! i am not a native speaker. your reply made me reach for the dictionary - too late, and now i learned a new phrase...

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frijitz



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject:
Subject description: softsynth version
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fonik wrote:
Excuse me, no offense meant!

Of course not! It was funny.

Very Happy

Ian
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, this should work. ABox download @
http://www.andyware.com/abox2/download/index.html

There's more work needed on scaling, but you should be able to get a good range of patterns at ~1kHz

Very Happy

Ian

EDIT: Replaced with an improved version -- improved scaling and lower levels.


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Extension test ...

ok that seems to work.


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frijitz



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Extension test ...
ok that seems to work.

Worked here for me too. Thanks again!

Very Happy

Ian
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're welcome Ian.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just loaded your abox file. It's really interesting but it goes unstable, or should I say stable, when the knobs are turned by someone like me who has no idea how this works.
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I just loaded your abox file. It's really interesting but it goes unstable, or should I say stable, when the knobs are turned by someone like me who has no idea how this works.

Laughing You should have seen me struggling with it! I've replaced the previous file with an upgraded one in my previous post. This now scales properly with frequency and the amplitudes have been reduced a bit.

There is some general discussion of the analog circuit here:
http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/ch_cir1.htm

If the system runs to the rails, then you can increase the damping, or decrease the drive amplitude, or reduce the strength of the nonlinearity.

If the system sits at a point or makes a small orbit, then you can do the opposite of the above, or vary the drive frequency.

In general, you might start with the original settings and look separately at the effects of drive frequency and drive amplitude. Then you can explore the effect of the damping parameter, which determines the overall amount of irregularity. That should give you some feel for the important effects of the main parameters.

Thanks for trying this out!

Very Happy

Ian
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scriptstyle



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey unkle did you ever get around to testing the stripboard layout? I have jus preped a board for population and will be getting to it sometime soon. Also where did you get your dual gang 1m pot?

Thanks
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

scriptstyle wrote:
Also where did you get your dual gang 1m pot?

Actually you can use just about any old dual pot 10k or over. 1M was just what I had on hand.

Smile

Ian
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macumbista



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all... I've been digging into the Dan Slater article mentioned a few times in this thread, and also writing Ian privately about his chaos generators, but I wanted to open the communication up a bit.

The interesting point in the Slater article states that "a chaotic system requires both feedback and nonlinearity". I've been working with FM cross-modulation feedback for some time now. My current setup uses four Thomas Henry XR-VCOs (at LFO rates) cross frequency-modulated through a 4x4 bipolar matrix mixer. The outputs of these VCOs are then used as control voltage for another four XR-VCOs at audio rate.

This setup produces plenty of "chaotic" patterns, and running the modulation feedback through some sort of waveshaper or phase shifter has a strong effect on the modulation. So I'm looking for other nonlinearities which can be introduced into the modulation path to increase the amount of chaos.

I'd like to emphasize that while I am interested in chaotic patterns, I'm not interested in building a single-unit chaos oscillator. I'm more looking for analog-computer-style functions I can "insert" into the feedback paths of what I've been working on already to make it more nonlinear/chaotic. I'm not sure if what I'm doing could be called "chaos" in the mathematical sense, but creatively it's the direction I'm headed in.

My first step will be to make an x³ circuit, which David Dixon and Simon Brouwer on the SDIY list have suggested can be made from four-quadrant multiplier followed by a two quadrant (OTA) multiplier. (or another four quadrant I suppose...) I've also been thinking about the Buchla 257 Dual Control Voltage Processor and the way (I understand) you could "interpolate" between two voltages (help me out here anyone!), which seems very useful as a way to voltage control the amount or type of nonlinearity something like the x³ circuit would introduce into my feedback system.

But I would love to hear any suggestions people might have for other useful or sonically interesting functions. (Also, is the EZ Chaos module the kind of thing that would be useful in my situation, or is it an oscillator by itself?)

Ian has mentioned a few times that he's interested in how people will use these projects, so perhaps my approach is that I have a use and I'm looking for the right kind of nonlinear functions to incorporate into it.

I hope this doesn't sound too vague... one of the frustrating parts of looking into all these documents is the lack of "use scenarios", so it's hard for me to get an idea of what some of Ian's circuits might be used for. Am I reinventing Ian's wheel here, or going down a different path?

Thx+best!
Derek

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frijitz



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The point of making dedicated chaos modules was to avoid having to set up complicated patches. The systems available each exhibits all the main types of chaotic behavior.

For additional elements in your system you could use the nonlinear x - x^3 circuit on my website. This generates a reasonable approximation using the soft knee of a zener diode as a very simple alternative to actually building complicated and cumbersome polynomial generators.

The doublewell chaos generator is a driven system, so it could be used either as a feedback element or in place of one or more of the LFOs.

Very Happy

Ian
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